Sugardude's Diet Puzzle

[SUGARDUDE]

Here I go. Day 1 without added sugar. I'm laying off fruit for the time being as well.

I'm trying to do 30 days before reicorporating fruit back into the diet.

I'm still taking the vitamins along with 50mg of 5-HTP. I have the Glutamine handy for emergencies.

I weighed in today at a nice hefty (for me) 216.5.

This is not so much about weight loss anymore. It's about eliminating an addiction.

[SUGARDUDE]

1 day in the books successfully. Down 1.5 lbs to 215. I got a little uncomfortable last night but overall it was not bad. I did go to the glutamine once after dinner.

[SUGARDUDE]

Day 2 in the books. Dropped another 2 lbs of water weight and I'm down to 213. No cravings....no glutamine....no problem.

[Todd Becker]

I agree with you that Duffy goes a bit overboard in blaming sugar for all the world's ills, but I think he is right on many of his essential points. I would go even further and extend his logic to include refined carbs and even many unfrefined carbs, including certain fruits.

Glad to hear his book has provided some motivation for you. Other than avoiding added sugar and fruits, are there any behavioral techniques you are using with your new dietary approach?

[SUGARDUDE]

Hey everyone. I've been off the wagon for awhile. Reading the book only gave me temporary motivation.

The last thing that I tried was taking apple cider vinegar. I actually did it today before breakfast and lunch but that didn't stop me from being compelled to binge on sugar at about 2:30.

Before that I tried to do South Beach again but that only lasted 5 days.

Tomorrow I'm going to try taking Gymnema Sylvestre which is an herb given to diabetics. I see another try at deconditioning coming down the pike again.

It's getting ridiculous.

[SUGARDUDE]

I go through this over and over again with the artificial sweeteners. I've been using them as a crutch but I thinking (again) that they really hinder any progress I make towards eliminating the cravings.

I going to try just eating a balanced diet again without resorting to artificial sweeteners.

[Todd Becker]

I see another try at deconditioning coming down the pike again....It's getting ridiculous.

Sugardude, good to see you posting again. It sounds like the past few months have been a frustrating. It does seem you've tried a number of supplements and diets to no avail.  And artificial sweeteners just ignites the same sugar flame.  (There are some studies showing that artificial sweeteners trigger the same insulin response in sensitive individuals. A good discussion of this is on Jimmy Moore's low carb website: http://www.livinlowcarbdiscussion.com/showthread.php?tid=3021).

I'll go out on a limb here and give you my honest opinion, which I realize goes against much of the conventional wisdom:

All the diets and supplements which may seem to reduce your cravings in the short term.  But they don't change the circuit in your brain that connects the stimulus to the response.  You can avoid the stimulus (sweet foods) for days, weeks, months...but what happens in a moment of stress when you get exposed to the stimulus situation again, the circuit is activated, and you give it?  Then it is all for nothing. The fact is that you have a very deeply burned circuit in your brain, like a well worn path through the woods.  You need to find a way to totally obliterate the old path and create alternative pathways, or your brain will always take the path of least resistance.

Have you really done a serious attempt at direct cue exposure deconditioning? I don't mean once or twice, I mean in a serious way -- exposing yourself to the appearance, aroma, and even taste and texture of sweet foods, swishing in your mouth-- and then spitting out.  And doing it repeatedly, especially with the most tempting foods.  

I realize that sounds like heresy, but it has worked to cure an number of people from serious addictions, as documented in the research by Conklin and Tiffany that I posted on "Overcoming Addictions".  And Heidi has posted of her success with her "Non-Addictive Food Diet", using her "Enlightened Tasting" technique.  It sounds very odd and perhaps even repulsive, but it might work for you if you can stick with it a while.

The aim of the deconditioning is to render the old pathway ineffective...dead...broken...unable to activate.  At the same time you need to actively develop an alternative response to stress, because it is in fact stress that is the activator of your sugar circuit.  Deliberately plan some days where you will expose yourself to an uncomfortable stress and then...go to the gym, or for a run, or take a nice bath, or watch a movie or call a friend.  This also will take repeating to reinforce.

Here's an apt a analogy:  Your sugar addiction is a very well worn path through the woods. You need to create new, alternate paths through the woods, by non-reinforcement and active counter-conditioning: plant new high grass in the path and cut down trees to fall across it, until in becomes impassable. Your current strategy of supplements and diets is like avoiding the woods but leaving the path there.  The problem is...you will always return to the woods and the path will still be there and will always be the most attractive path through the woods if you don't actively extinguish it.

My best wishes to you,

Todd

[SUGARDUDE]

Todd. I agree with you analysis in theory but I'm hoping it doesn't take that much to rewire the circuitry. I never had any physical withdrawl from cocaine. So I'm hoping that with a combination of vitamins, exercise, and the rights foods, i can get on the right path.

Swishing sugar laden foods in my mouth doesn't sound repulsive ay all. It's teh spitting out part that seems a bit far fetched because how do I really spit it out once it's there. Like I said in another post, it's like putting a filled crack pipe to your mouth and lighting the flame without actually doing a hit. 

This method actually seems crazier that drinking olive oil or clipping your nose, but I'm sure I'll be trying it....very soon.

[Todd Becker]

Todd. I agree with you analysis in theory but I'm hoping it doesn't take that much to rewire the circuitry. I never had any physical withdrawl from cocaine. So I'm hoping that with a combination of vitamins, exercise, and the rights foods, i can get on the right path.

Swishing sugar laden foods in my mouth doesn't sound repulsive ay all. It's teh spitting out part that seems a bit far fetched because how do I really spit it out once it's there. Like I said in another post, it's like putting a filled crack pipe to your mouth and lighting the flame without actually doing a hit. 

This method actually seems crazier that drinking olive oil or clipping your nose, but I'm sure I'll be trying it....very soon.

Sugardude,

I definitely realize how weird, even absurd the direct cue exposure methods sounds. The swishing and spitting out may be the most important part, however, because it primes your response right up to the last move and then...it fizzles out. The spitting out part is not so hard, just do it over the sink, and rinse if necessary. Then follow it up with something non-sweet or just some water or a bland beverage.  Almost like you would rinse out flavors with the Shangri-La Diet.

The comparison you make with the Shangri-La Diet is a good one:  Just because a method is "strange" doesn't mean it doesn't work.  The strangeness may in fact have been a reason nobody really taken it seriously.

Heidi raised the point that this time of chewing and spitting LOOKS like an eating disorder. If people see you doing it, or "catch" you doing it, they could mistake you for a bulimic.  But it's the opposite of an eating disorder, because you are in fact normalizing your response to food. If you read through Heidi's post, what's interesting is that she found a different kind of pleasure in Enlightened Tasting. The pleasure was in truly noticing how food tastes, almost like tasting it for the first time, because you ONLY get the taste, not the "hit" or high of the blood sugar rush.  So it is almost like reprogramming your taste circuits. Heidi seemed to find this really helped her develop a more normal response to foods that once were addictive -- so she no longer has to avoid them, but can enjoy them like "normal" people.  Think about that....isn't it worth it?

I have not had real food or sugar addictions myself, but in my own experience, I found that the just looking at, handling, and smelling the aroma of foods I used to crave (pastries, ice cream) was enough to decondition my cravings. I tried the tasting and spitting a few times just for the experience, but I didn't even need to go that far to really dampen and kill my cravings. So I still like ice cream, but one dish every few weeks is fine, not every night or two like it was at one point a year ago or so.  And similarly, I still enjoy a beer each week, but it is much more like just a nicely flavored beverage. In both cases, I no longer experience the "ahhh", the release of some stress that used to make me want the ice cream or beer to de-stress.  Both are just "foods".

I would really recommend reading through Heidi's posts again, because I think she is on to something....

Good luck.

[SUGARDUDE]

Will do (re Heidi's thread). I may just incorporate into my current regimen. I currently taking Gymnema before breakfast and lunch and barring any sugar snacks like candy, cookies, cake, or ice cream.......and no artificial sweeteners.

The good thing about this is that I don't have to limit myself at restaurants or social gatherings. Just say no to sweets. Even white bread is okay....but not preferred.

[SUGARDUDE]

I think I'm onto something. First of all I tried the enlightened tasting with a bagel and cream cheese and I must say it was more difficult than I imagined (the spitting part). Within a half hour I was chomping down 2 bagels. I haven't tried it again since.

In any event, I was reading some more about Gymnema Sylvestere which I have been taking in caplet form and has done zilch for my cravings. I again read about how if you swish the powder from a capsule into your mouth and then spit it out, you cannot taste sweetness afterward.

I tried doing this and I was amazed how terrible sugar sweetened cereal tasted (or didn't taste).

This got me to thinking about it in terms of deconditioning/extinction. If I consistently pair a stimulus (sweet food) with no reinforcement (no sweet taste), maybe the craving or desire for sugar can be extinguished. At the very least I now have a tool for eliminating sweet binges (stay tuned).

[jared33]

That's amazing, S.D.  I think you've made a very interesting discovery here. You've come up with an interesting application of behaviorism that I never heard of before. What is especially interesting is that by blocking the sweet taste of the cereal you actually made it taste bad.
What you've come up with sounds very much like what Heidi wrote about the Sinclair Method, where alcoholics and drug users have been able to decondition their addiictions by using low dose naltrexone (LDN).  The naltrexone blocks the endorphin circuits, so the alcoholic gets no reinforcement while drinking, so you get extinction.  The success rate is very high, but only if the Sinclair Method is continued for many months.  I checked out Heidi's links and the support forums for that method, and there are a lot of success stories.

I like your method because it seems that this is a natural herb, and so you avoid needing any medications. And it seems very useful specifically for sugar addiction.  Where do you get the Gymnema Sylvestere?  How long does the effect last after taking the caplets?

Keep us posted.

[SUGARDUDE]

Where do you get the Gymnema Sylvestere?  How long does the effect last after taking the caplets?

You can but it at any vitamin store. I got mine at GNC. You can get it cheaper online.

I have to play around with timing the effect. Today I tasted an M&M candy about 45 minutes after using the powder and I could barely detect any sweetness. The powder itself actually tastes disgusting but if you can drink olive oil you can do this. It has to be the powder from a caspule. Don't buy the caplets.

By the way. The powder does not effect the ability to taste tartness. So pineapple juice still tastes  good.

I'm still experimenting with othersweets but I'm going to try this full boar tomorrow as part of a diet.

[SUGARDUDE]

So the plan is to use the powder after each meal and at any time I have a sugar craving. For this to be meaningful I have to actually give into the craving and take a bite of something sugary.

BTW, I've used the powder twice today and actually have no desire for sugar right now (which is somewhat of an oddity).

[SUGARDUDE]

Weighed in at a hefty 218.5 today. I'm expecting to head over to my Mom's today so there will be plenty of goodies for me to eat but not taste.