Author Topic: Eyesight without glasses  (Read 129153 times)

Offline peterg

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #885 on: October 21, 2012, 06:08:20 PM »
Hi Proh, you have two battles.  For yourself you are trying to improve or rehabilitate your medium grade myopia.  It will be a long struggle, for perhaps a faint possibility that you can improve.  With your daughter I am impressed that you have been able to carry on with her using +1.5 lenses.   This is no small achievement for a 4 year old.  Getting to the next level of trying to teach her to read at the edge of blue and self-monitoring her distance will be be even more difficult.  Just wearing the plus lenses are not enough, if they are not used correctly. Peter

Otis


First I thanks you for support .
My objective is to find a proper rehabilitation plan & not what I would like to do.

This may be true that we can have many ways to do rehabilitation & some will have faster desired results than others . I am trying to figure out what are those ways or their combination in general which can provide faster rehabilitation  for higher myopia.

As per your feedback for OD   & new pair I agree that a cost is associated. The solution will be tocheck at home & order online at cheap price

Proh

Offline PROH

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #886 on: October 24, 2012, 08:20:00 PM »
Thanks Peter


I working with her to read at the edge of focus but the duration is almost nothing.
Her attention span is very less & I am focussing more to have a habit for her to have correct reading distance & other good habits for vision .


Proh

Offline PROH

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #887 on: October 25, 2012, 04:55:26 AM »
Hi All


I found Essilor advocating bifocal lenses for childrens

http://www.essilor.com.sg/productbrands/myopilux/myopilux-max.html


Quote
Myopilux Max is a prismatic bifocal lens that has proven to work against myopia progression versus normal single vision lenses. It also helps reduce the progression of axial elongation, thereby reducing the risk factor for many eye-related diseases such as glaucoma, retinal detachment and macular degeneration. Myopilux Max offers the widest field of vision possible in an ophthalmic lens.

what is others view . Is the industry started to recogise the use of bifocals

Proh

Offline PROH

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #888 on: October 25, 2012, 04:59:45 AM »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #889 on: October 25, 2012, 05:09:37 PM »
Hi Proh,

Here is a video that discusses the problem of myopia in China.  Major points:

1) Both plus and minus lenses have a profound effect on the refractive state of the normal eye - as the video shows.
2) They advocate a "new lens" to be based on these findings
3) There has been no "full" clinical trial as yet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH_H4BRJMLk&feature=related

As always, I agree it is very difficult to deal with a child on these issues.  I am pleased you  discovered the need for a bi-focal for children.

Otis




One more link

http://www.capitol.com.sg/common/pdf/Myopilux.pdf

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #890 on: October 26, 2012, 04:30:24 AM »
Hi Proh and Peter,

Certainly (from the "chicken", as well as the primate data) that final-truth is that "long-term near" creates negative status for the completely normal eye.  (Note my language - I NEVER say 'cause defects').  A lot of our confusion comes from using "wrong words" with assumptions in them - and then jumping to the wrong conclusion.  I truly hate getting into a "fight" with an OD or MD.  They think the minus is "perfect", and you MUST be wrong - if you start asking "questions".  Tragically this "anger" about us "stupid laymen" - results in NO INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION.  I now check my own vision (Snellen) myself, as well as my refractive STATE - because I know how to do it - and because I advocated that my sister's children do the same thing.  But it takes great scientific "insight" to do it.  Todd was successful - because he had that "insight" that his PERSONAL wearing of a plus (and passing the state DMV) was the right thing of HIM TO DO.  Most people never reach that point.  Most people don't even objectively read their own Snellen.  This is how I establish a "line" - where I protect my distant vision - myself.  I hope, and encourage others to do what I do - assuming they can still read the 20/50 or 20/60 line.  (I don't care what "prescription" they might have had - because the possibility of success depends on your "stating point" on your own Snellen.)

Otis

Offline peterg

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #891 on: October 26, 2012, 06:00:04 AM »
I don't care what "prescription" they might have had - because the possibility of success depends on your "starting point" on your own Snellen.


I think you have been clear on that always.  My starting point was 20/150.  The implication is my possibility of success is not as great as someone starting at 20/60, such as Shadowfoot.   But, Todd's starting point may have  been worse than mine and he was able to get one eye to 20/20 and the weaker eye to 20/40 (I think that is what he wrote earlier on the forum in 2011).

Peter

Offline peterg

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #892 on: October 29, 2012, 10:53:21 AM »
Hi All, 

I just re-read this particular monster forum thread over the last week.  In particular I re-read the items that Jensen, ShadowEyes, Nate, and others wrote.  It was really helpful to re-read. I've tried my best over the last 5 weeks or so to re-engage in an effort to improve, and some of the items I've read have been more helpful this time around.  I'm also trying to take advice from Alex Freuenfeld where I am participating in his myopia challenge.  I can not report any tangible improvements these last 5 weeks, but I am going to maintain this renewed vigor in order to attempt to improve further.

Peter

Offline Nate

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #893 on: October 29, 2012, 02:12:01 PM »
Peterg,

One of the difficult things about doing the rehab with a starting high myopia is the length of time it takes and how frustrating it can be.  I started a little over a year ago with a -6 prescription.  I think right now I am about a -4.25, but I'm not sure.  I went from about 6 inches focal length from my eye, to about 10 inches.  I have been very diligent.  Sometimes it is frustrating-I'm not sure if I will ever make it.  I still have fairly bad myopia.  However, I am functional in -3 lenses. 

I recently went to a high school football game at night.  With my -3 lenses, I could read the scoreboard all through the game, although it was blurry.  Last year, with my -5 lenses on, I couldn't read the scoreboard at night.

When you start with high myopia, the frustrating thing is that the world stays pretty blurry for a long time.  But I have made progress.

Nate

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #894 on: October 29, 2012, 03:58:36 PM »
Hi Nate,
Just having a medical doctor like you make an effort - is very important to me.  This is indeed frustrating for all of us.  I was a "high myope" also - so I KNOW the experience.  I also found ODs who advocated PREVENTION - before any minus was applied.  I taught my nephew to ALWAYS wear a plus when it "got blurry out there".  He did and always passed the DMV.  Last check in Graduate School, he saw his vision "start down" - so he re-started wearing a strong plus.  This does not involve "medicine" in any way.  I taught him how to read his Snellen, and how to check his refractive state (with trial lenses), so no one in an office would "over-prescribe" him.  In my opinion, prevention is truly PERSONAL.  I can recommend that a person "wise up" and wear the plus - like that - but if they do not - they truly lose their distant vision.
If you have children - and they "start down" - then you are in a much better position to give them advice they need about wearing a plus (when their Snellen goes down to 20/40 to 20/50).  It is at that time you can talk to them - and explain what is certain to happen if they don't take wearing the plus seriously at that point.
As always - keep on posting - but keep your children's visual future in mind also.  A wise parent can protect the child's long-term vision for life - if he has the motivation for it.
Otis




Peterg,

One of the difficult things about doing the rehab with a starting high myopia is the length of time it takes and how frustrating it can be.  I started a little over a year ago with a -6 prescription.  I think right now I am about a -4.25, but I'm not sure.  I went from about 6 inches focal length from my eye, to about 10 inches.  I have been very diligent.  Sometimes it is frustrating-I'm not sure if I will ever make it.  I still have fairly bad myopia.  However, I am functional in -3 lenses. 

I recently went to a high school football game at night.  With my -3 lenses, I could read the scoreboard all through the game, although it was blurry.  Last year, with my -5 lenses on, I couldn't read the scoreboard at night.

When you start with high myopia, the frustrating thing is that the world stays pretty blurry for a long time.  But I have made progress.

Nate

Offline peterg

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #895 on: October 29, 2012, 05:38:14 PM »
Hi Nate,

Thanks for the message.  Your improvement in one year is incredible.  Shaving off what you suggest is 1.75 diopters is outstanding.  I wish you all the best and truly hope you can make further progress.  You truly deserve it.

Part of the frustration is one is never truly sure that you have figured things out, or know how to do things correctly for maximum benefit  Also, when I went back and read through this large thread, I was even shocked about some of the stuff I forgot about myself with my early on success.  It seems I have been stumbling or even bumbling along after having some great early signs that I haven't really repeated in 8 months (like my crystal clear solid black snellon).  Fair to say, I may have even gone backwards.

You may wish to check out http://www.myopiachallenge.com  the site run by opthamologist Alex Frauenfeld.  There is a forum there, and some of the questions are asked by higher myopes like yourself.  Fraunfeld doesn't suggest his protocol is a sure fire or only way, but what he tries to do is teach the process of carefully applying select amounts of stress, and then having you learn to understand the finer responses of your vision system. 

Peter



Peterg,

One of the difficult things about doing the rehab with a starting high myopia is the length of time it takes and how frustrating it can be.  I started a little over a year ago with a -6 prescription.  I think right now I am about a -4.25, but I'm not sure.  I went from about 6 inches focal length from my eye, to about 10 inches.  I have been very diligent.  Sometimes it is frustrating-I'm not sure if I will ever make it.  I still have fairly bad myopia.  However, I am functional in -3 lenses. 

I recently went to a high school football game at night.  With my -3 lenses, I could read the scoreboard all through the game, although it was blurry.  Last year, with my -5 lenses on, I couldn't read the scoreboard at night.

When you start with high myopia, the frustrating thing is that the world stays pretty blurry for a long time.  But I have made progress.

Nate

Offline peterg

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #896 on: October 29, 2012, 05:50:45 PM »
Nate,

I also went to this vision simulator just to attempt to understand what your current battle is.  I put -4.25 on the simulator, and -3 on the correction.

http://www.billauer.co.il/simulator.html

Just seeing where your current battle is, is once again impressive.

Peter

Offline Nate

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #897 on: October 30, 2012, 08:01:03 AM »
Peterg,

I just went and tried the simulator.  Both my uncorrected vision and  corrected vision are quite a bit better than the simulator shows. 

Nate

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #898 on: October 30, 2012, 04:54:27 PM »
Hi Peter,
I know you went from 20/200 (almost legal blindness with no lens) to passing the DMV, at 20/40 or better.  I agree that most of this work can be done with no plus lens.  I know you have a number of opinions about wearing the plus for all close work at this time.  By re-reading this thread you can see a vast variety of opinions on this difficult subject.  I like the reaction and success of Shadow-foot.  He just used a strong plus, until he went from 20/30 to better-than 20/20 - I think the limit of most eyes is 20/18 to 20/15.
I think the hardest part for now - is to continue with the plus (if that is your choice).  I know you can "test" your eyes with a minus lens - and determine that a -1.0 will give you 20/15 vision.  (That is what 'sells' in an office - with all due respect.) But, by your own measurements of your own refractive state - you know you need a "change" of about +1.0 diopter - to get to better-than 20/20.  That change is indeed very slow to develop - so you are not going to see any results for some time.  This is where "pilot Severson" excelled.  He just kept wearing the plus for nine months - until he reached the "level" that Shadow-foot achieved.  That "last" 1.0 diopter of change is indeed the most difficult to achieve. But, in my opinion, it was your own ability to learn how to use a "trial lens", and over-come your 'fear' of wearing a plus that made you truly successful - by going to the DMV and OBJECTIVELY passing their test.  What you do now - will get be a "learning process" in objective science - as I understand it.
Otis



Hi All, 

I just re-read this particular monster forum thread over the last week.  In particular I re-read the items that Jensen, ShadowEyes, Nate, and others wrote.  It was really helpful to re-read. I've tried my best over the last 5 weeks or so to re-engage in an effort to improve, and some of the items I've read have been more helpful this time around.  I'm also trying to take advice from Alex Freuenfeld where I am participating in his myopia challenge.  I can not report any tangible improvements these last 5 weeks, but I am going to maintain this renewed vigor in order to attempt to improve further.

Peter

Offline peterg

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Re: Eyesight without glasses
« Reply #899 on: October 30, 2012, 05:34:56 PM »
Hi Otis,

Sept. 24th, 2012 I went to a dollar store, and purchased +1 glasses for exactly $1 plus tax. I started using them that day for my computer work.  The first 3 weeks or so, I pressed my eyes too much, and felt I was not making any progress and in fact was regressing.  Alex Frauenfeld has helped me, suggesting that in my case I am likely overdoing it and that such agressive stimulation may be counter-productive.  I think Todd's messages in various spots on this forum cover the same theme.  After that, for the most part I used them just inside the point of blur with a few periods per day where I pushed it and try to bring a bit more distance into the clear.  I also try as much as I can to go outside for a walk and work on distance accuity, and especially my peripheral vision as described by Alex Frauenfeld again on myopiachallenge.  The peripheral vision walks especially, can bring tearing or the verge of tearing to my eyes.  Anytime I have tearing I think I am doing something right.

My intention was to stay with +1 for one month's time, and then move to +1.25 or +1.50.  I had hoped to have increased the distance that I was reading my computer through the +1s.  I do not think I have increased my +1 distance too much if at all, on average maybe 1 or 2 cm. 

So today I made the move to +1.5s.  I seem to be able to function at 18-19" from my computer monitor.  I intend to try to continue with +1.5 for near work for at least a month even if I make obvious improvements before then.  It seems more reasonable to me to not push my eyes too hard on the changes with too much plus.  After one month I will re-evaluate.

At the same time, I am following a disciplined approach of recording my reading blur point naked eye, with +1, and starting today with +1.5. Hopefully this record keeping (part of Alex's protocol) will help me identify trends over time.

As for my trial lenses, I made a major move at the end of July, and I have still not found the box where I packed them.  So, I have been unable to validate what my current self-measured refractive status is since that time.

Peter


Hi Peter,
I know you went from 20/200 (almost legal blindness with no lens) to passing the DMV, at 20/40 or better.  I agree that most of this work can be done with no plus lens.  I know you have a number of opinions about wearing the plus for all close work at this time.  By re-reading this thread you can see a vast variety of opinions on this difficult subject.  I like the reaction and success of Shadow-foot.  He just used a strong plus, until he went from 20/30 to better-than 20/20 - I think the limit of most eyes is 20/18 to 20/15.
I think the hardest part for now - is to continue with the plus (if that is your choice).  I know you can "test" your eyes with a minus lens - and determine that a -1.0 will give you 20/15 vision.  (That is what 'sells' in an office - with all due respect.) But, by your own measurements of your own refractive state - you know you need a "change" of about +1.0 diopter - to get to better-than 20/20.  That change is indeed very slow to develop - so you are not going to see any results for some time.  This is where "pilot Severson" excelled.  He just kept wearing the plus for nine months - until he reached the "level" that Shadow-foot achieved.  That "last" 1.0 diopter of change is indeed the most difficult to achieve. But, in my opinion, it was your own ability to learn how to use a "trial lens", and over-come your 'fear' of wearing a plus that made you truly successful - by going to the DMV and OBJECTIVELY passing their test.  What you do now - will get be a "learning process" in objective science - as I understand it.

Otis