Getting Stronger: Discussion Forum

Discussion Topics => Rehabilitation => Topic started by: Steven on July 26, 2014, 01:45:59 AM

Title: Diplopia
Post by: Steven on July 26, 2014, 01:45:59 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplopia

Careful !

When using plus glasses and not focusing on anything (unfocusing) you are voluntarily producing Diplopia (double image)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplopia#Voluntary

Do not confuse this with astigmatism.
Double vision is neither dangerous nor harmful, and may even be enjoyable.

But if you use the technique of strong plus lenses and no focusing you have to make a habit when not using plus glasses to focus slightly on things as to not have all the time Diplopia.

Otherwise after days of not focusing you may think your astigmatism got up and your vision deteriorated. But this is false. Once you try to focus with both eyes simultaneously and get a single picture in the brain you will see that it was just the habit of not focusing that caused the double images.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on July 26, 2014, 12:25:14 PM
Hi Steven,

I use plus not only for near work but when I am at home as well as suggested in PVS to provoke myopic defocus. So although I use small plus (+1D) I do it for a lot of hours (2-3 hours) and I'm then well beyond the blur zone.

From your description above do you think I'm overdoing this way with plus and provoke diplopia by unwise use of plus well beyond the blur zone? Monocular diplopia also is more apparent to me when using plus at far although I would expect this effect with cylinders and not spherical diopters.

Not focusing due to heavy plus at distance seems logical that may provoke diplopia but in what mechanism monocular diplopia?

The good think is when with both eyes monocular diplopia is less apparent to me.

Dr Alex amongst other things suggests active focus for clearing monocular diplopia and I don't think plus at distance which is too blurry can help with clearing monocular diplopia at least.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Steven on July 27, 2014, 07:24:20 AM
I don't think you are overdoing it with +1.
Are you sure it's not astigmatism ?
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on July 27, 2014, 11:10:35 AM
Some lines seem darker than other for me in this test when looking with one eye:

http://www.optical-center.co.uk/astigmatism-test (http://www.optical-center.co.uk/astigmatism-test)

I wasn't positive in these tests some months ago.

Many people report this stage even if they don't use soft plus at far like me in Dr Alex's forum. Mr Todd Becker also dealed with this stage. Dr Alex treat this mainly as brain rehabilitation and not astigmatism.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on August 04, 2014, 09:59:12 AM
(Sorry for double posting but I have my reasons)

Is is possible that our eyes don't heal evenly in all meridians and thus the ghosting-added astigmatism after some heal in myopia?

Dr Alex suggest that for low myopia we may even not use cylinders since our vision is quite good even without them.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on August 04, 2014, 10:17:03 AM
Yes, for me with only spherical lenses I can see 20/20 with both eyes open although I have some ghosting.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on August 18, 2014, 09:48:03 AM
I've been three weeks without mild plus lenses for far when at home and no good result for reducing ghosting. Maybe mild plus for far doesn't provoke or prevent this from fixing, so I'm thinking of restarting habits as eating with plus etc.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on August 24, 2014, 03:16:41 AM
I've checked while doing accommodation rock at 6m on a Snellen chart and ghosting in my left eye has subsided and sometimes zeroed and in my right eye has become more stable even though I have restarted plus mild plus for far when I'm at home.
Trying to fuse the images, active focus and maybe hard blinking and eye rotations (for the cornea) may do the trick for ghosting. No ghosting when doing active focus or hard blinking.

I feel mild plus at home when at low myopia can help but it need also active focus to break plateaus.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on August 24, 2014, 04:24:10 AM
I put the Snellen chart at 6m and check which line I can just see (the smallest one). Then with small print I find when the print starts blurring but going closer and closer. In this way by alternating focusing with one or both eyes I put the inner lens to its extreme edges.
It is in the "rebuild your vision" program" and also in the Martin Sussman's "The Program for Better Vision".
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on August 25, 2014, 08:43:12 AM
I have rechecked again and the ghosting is really subsiding! And yes in a sunny day with 20/25 I go outside without glasses anymore. Yet there is a lot way for improvement.

I measured my mother's PD with a photo and I believe if the person looks at the camera at 1m and not at far there could be 2-3mm wrong in the measurement (due to eye crossing).
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on August 25, 2014, 09:06:29 AM
(Sorry for being out of topic)

I'm trying to buy from zenioptical a pair of glasses for my mother who can see 20/20 with her older pair of -3,25D, one diopter less than the last one.

I have also tested a pair of plus 2 from a pharmacy and didn't have a problem reading even though they were cheap glasses.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on August 26, 2014, 01:07:12 PM
I finally figured out that it's the moving focal planes that's doing the job,...

Yes, I don't have the same sensation inside the eyeball but I see the Snellen more clearly after some minutes of doing this exercise. Maybe putting the lens at its extremes for a while can do good even if I have to look very close for some seconds.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on September 27, 2014, 09:09:36 AM
Whether or not diplopia who have many people in the last diopter of rehabilitation is (not corneal) astigmatism in nature there is a good practice eliminating it:

by Vic Cinc, Sydney, Australia, using the Astigmatic Mirror to Reduce Astigmatism

http://www.i-see.org/astigmirror.html (http://www.i-see.org/astigmirror.html)


I've noticed that the further from the chart the faint lines become double so if the exercise is done at far it stresses the problem better.

Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on October 01, 2014, 03:42:13 AM
Using the Astigmatic Mirror for diplopia

The following exercise I have developed myself for diplopia, astigmatism or simple myopia.

Using the Astigmatic Mirror we can find the axis of diplopia or astigmatism. This is the darkest line where the two lines (the darkest and the faintest, one in reality) fall one onto the other due to the fact that they are on the astigmatism axis so they appear as one darker line except for the tips of it.

Most of us know that if we apply a soft pressure with the index and the thumb at the cornea just above the eyelids the myopia diminishes.
I have noticed that this soft pressure diminishes diplopia or astigmatism also. The index and the thumb form an axis and if this axis is at 90 degrees or vertical to the axis of diplopia (astigmatism) the most faint and double lines merge into one and become now the darkest ones if the pressure is enough. So because this new axis is vertical to the diplopia axis, it diminishes it.

If one has not astigmatism he might technically induce it that way for a short period of time.
 
I practice it with each eye for some minutes with soft pressure in order not to hurt my eyes.

There are studies that show that orthokeratology (pressure to the cornea by lenses) can slow down the myopia rate and maybe the above is an analog.

edit:
The pressure in the cornea didn't work for me after a month of trying. So better do the following instead looking the astigmatic mirror.

Quote
The process I generally use is this: go outside, find something with high contrast. lampposts are good for this against the sky. Pull focus. blink. wait till the two images are sharp then stare and try not to blink. keep staring. after staring for a while things go a little hazy. blink a few times and the images should be aligned. This might not last for long but consistently doing it over time will result in less and less effort being required and the images combining for longer and longer periods. Also one of the 2 images gradually gets stronger over time and the other more faint.

***************
Finally I managed how to fuse a ghosting image in an exercise!
I do now the astigmatic wheel mod as I edited.
http://forum.gettingstronger.org/index.php/topic,1007.msg7711.html#msg7711
A good trick is to pick a line in the angle that is not ghosting on two lines of equal strength but in one stronger and one fainter. Then trying to move them too close in order to fuse while making the faint line more fainter.
It is as active focus with one eye, and tear may come after the effort.

Of course the astigmatic mirror must be beyond the blur zone to see the ghosting images quite far from one another.


Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on October 04, 2014, 09:03:02 AM
Many suggest eye rotations and moving them to the maximum position they can, so as to stretch the extrinsic eye muscles in order not to pull and not have muscles imbalances

Dr. Raphaelson found that plus lenses with NO CYLINDER COMPONENT would actually cure astigmatism. Below he explains how...


Quote
WHAT ABOUT ASTIGMATISM?

 I have been asked many times the following question: how can I give a
 pair of plus 1.00d spherical glasses to a child without examination and
 without finding out whether or not he has astigmatism? Let me tell you
 about this. I have been pondering this question to myself for many years.
 It was only a few years ago that I came to a conclusion. It is not only
 proper to give spherical plus glasses to a child who seems to have
 astigmatism, but it is, in reality, the best thing to do.

 I came to this conclusion because I now believe that astigmatism, like
 myopia, is an unnatural development of the eye due to our near-vision
 environment. Astigmatism, like myopia, develops during school years
 because of the prolonged and intensive bending of the eyes during those
 years, and also because natural hyper-sighted eyes are given no
 opportunity to relax and to stretch.

 Let me quote you a report by Dr. E. W. Adams, O. D., to the Optometric
 Research Institute. He says: "We have been surprised to find that the
 percentage of pupils with astigmatism increases during the successive
 years." He reports also that in the first and second grades very little
 astigmatism is found, but after these two beginning grades each
 successive grade up to about the sixth increases thi percentage of
 astigmatism; after the sixth the percentage remains about the same. Dr.
 Adams also reports that from their research they have the feeling that
 myopia is increasing.

 This report was the result of a survey and a thorough examination by
 highly capable optometrists with suitable testing equipment. In the years
 of 1935 and 1936, 6,560 pupils were examined in eight public schools in
 Detroit, Michigan.

 This report is not the only basis for my conclusion about astigmatism. I
 have many other basic proofs from my own experiences and observations. I
 also have reports by other optometrists which concur with my conclusion.
A pair of plus 1.00 glasses for a child for near work is much safer and
 more beneficial than a minus 0.50 or even plus 0.50 cylinder glasses.



NOTES

 Nearly ninety per cent of astigmatic eyes are of the low grade type, that
 is they are fitted with cylindrical lenses of less than one diopter
 (1.00d) either plus or minus. In most cases, the wearing of plus
 spherical glasses would reduce or cure the astigmatism and eliminate the
 need for cylindrical lenses.

 My advice to parents would be to have their children wear a pair of plus
 one (+1.00D) spherical glasses for at least one year before thy allow
 their children to be fitted with cylindrical glasses.

Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on October 10, 2014, 01:49:43 PM
Here is a research about a new way of reshaping the eyeball using pressure/whole-eye contact lenses. Mr Otis Brown also comments.

http://www.theeyefix.com/ (http://www.theeyefix.com/)
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on October 11, 2014, 03:59:01 AM
o use John Yee's Ortho-C, you must employ an optometrist, and that is always very expensive.

Υes, I just mention it to support the possible good effects about the exercise I mentioned before. So much years of causing myopia and wearing minus, it is logical for just plus to take months and years for good rehabilitation, especially in axial myopia
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on November 10, 2014, 02:43:25 PM
I have made a notice that supports Dr Alex's theory that dip;opia in rehabilitation is due to the visual cortex.
If I see from about 250cm a 2cm diameter black cycle, the moment I close one eye it takes some few seconds for diplopia to arise fully (the one cycle becomes two) and not immoderately. If it was organic it should be arising the moment I close the one eye.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 13, 2015, 11:13:44 AM
It is almost certain that people with high myopia have also astigmatism. A lot of people with medium myopia have also astigmatism.
Most people who reverse myopia, realize diplopia when they have greatly improved their visual acuity, so beforehands there is no point in seeing two sharp images since the blur is too much.
This looks like this diplopia might be low remaining astigmatism (or even myopia having effected even the cornea) or myopia not healed equally in all meridians.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on February 13, 2015, 02:07:16 PM
Another person not having astigmatism when he improves beyond 0,5D he is starting to "gaining" astigmatism in cylinders the diopters he lost! And thus having diplopia. The doctor replies a possible solution to this and says that even this is better vision than previous.

Quote
Ashvin:

30.10.2013 at 13:11 #

Hi Doc,

I am on the way to get clear vision using your excercise. I am pleased that I have made some improvement in my vison. Please find detail below.

Date RE LE
SPH CYL AXIS SPH CYL AXIS
06-07-2013 -1.75 0 0 -1.75 0 0
26-10-2013 -0.75 -0.75 180E -0.75 -0.75 180

first reading is reasult of eye test before starting excercises. second reading is yeasterday’s eye test result.

You can clearly see that my SPH number decreased but my CYL number is increased. Earlier i was not having CYL number.

Is it normal behaviour to increase CYL number during excercise??
What is the reason for CYL number?

Thanks,
Ashvin
Doc:

30.10.2013 at 20:21 #

Ashvin, the reason for cylinder’s number is an unequal corneal refraction. I mean, now your pair of horizontal extraocular muscles (i.e. medial rectus m. and lateral rectus m.) is stronger than the pair of vertical extraocular muscles (i.e. superior rectus m. and inferior rectus m.). You need to add an effort of vertical extra muscles. You should do more up and down eye movements during the warm-up. Also the dynamic fixation trainer 2 helps you to strengthen the vertical eye muscles.
Ashvin:

31.10.2013 at 10:23 #

Thanks Doc,

I will surely add some effort during worm up and start doing dynamic fixation trainer 2 for 10 min.

Ashvin
Doc:

31.10.2013 at 18:41 #

Ashvin, a bit more information: before the eye training your myopia was -1.75 D both in horizontal and vertical meridians. Now your myopia is -0.75 D in horizontal meridian and -1.50 D in vertical meridian. In any case, now your uncorrected vision is better than before in particular as for vertical lines.

http://www.forbestvision.com/nuia-eyecharm-kinect%C2%AE-to-eye-tracking/ (http://www.forbestvision.com/nuia-eyecharm-kinect%C2%AE-to-eye-tracking/)

From my point of view at 20/25 in the morning, I feel my astigmatism is worse than my remaining myopia and not  enabling me to see 20/20.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on February 16, 2015, 10:40:47 AM
Another case in the same link with similarities:

Quote
Akansha:

11.02.2014 at 15:35 #

Respected Sir

A few days ago I found your website and am going through it. Over the past few months I have tried to limit my use of eyeglasses.

My earlier prescription
Rt Eye
SPH -4.0 CYL -0.5 Axis 165deg
Lt eye
SPH -3.75 CYL -0.5 Axis 145deg

This had been the same for the past 10-12 years.

Today I got my eyes checked again and the prescription is
Rt Eye
SPH -3.5 CYL -1.0 Axis 180
Lt Eye
SPH -3.5 CYL -0.5 Axis 170

My question is why did cylindrical and axis change and what does it indicate? spherical number reduced but cylindrical has increased. Does it indicate worsening or improvement?

Another question is I spend around 6-7 hours daily on the laptop working. Should I wear -0.5 prescription glasses while working on the laptop. Also what strength to wear while driving.

Will be glad if you could guide me on this.
Doc:

11.02.2014 at 15:58 #

Akansha, now your pair of horizontal extraocular muscles (i.e. medial rectus m. and lateral rectus m.) is stronger than the pair of vertical extraocular muscles (i.e. superior rectus m. and inferior rectus m.). It indicates that your vision is a bit better. You need more up and down eye movements during the warm-up.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on February 26, 2015, 12:00:38 PM
Astigmatism causes images to be out of focus no matter what the distance.
It is possible for an astigmatic eye to minimize the blur by accommodating,
or focusing to bring the "circle of least confusion" onto the retina.


--Alex Eulenberg

http://web.archive.org/web/20080212081051/http://www.i-see.org/archive/astig (http://web.archive.org/web/20080212081051/http://www.i-see.org/archive/astig)
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on April 11, 2015, 03:01:45 AM
My mod of Dr Davydov's specific routine for diplopia.

In the stage of diplopia, after much gain I believe it makes plus lenses difficult to reduce myopia because the eye has two images now to deblur. This is my mod of Dr Davydov's specific routines for diplopia. In one month of this mod, added with plus of course, I saw  improvement in diplopia and at the Snellen chart while for seven months I was in a plateau.

Dr Davydov commented that in diplopia (specifically in the astigmatism by the rule) the superior and inferior rectus muscles need to get stronger, so the need for more up and down movement of the eyes.

1) The Advanced Extraocular Muscle Warm-up
http://www.forbestvision.com/advanced-external-ocular-muscle-warm-up/

should have more up and down movement as the doc suggested, so I did 75 as described in the link (not exactly with the breathing but not fast movements) and the 25 last ones only up and down movement.



The other exercise which is actually two (convergence and divergence) should be done with plus lenses and that's a smart thing combining exercises with plus lenses. The doc suggests one diopter myopic defocus which means +3D added to the refractive state and do the exercise at 0,5m. I think this way is too blurry and I lowered the plus for me (+2 added to my refractive state).
In order to manage divergence you might need weeks of training. Moreover if you do finally the divergence on the computer screen you might actually mistakenly doing convergence in stead of divergence because you don't have the ability to look far this way (moved the paper with the symbols up and down instead). Also in the first week you might manage divergence only with peripheral vision.

2) Dynamic Vision Trainer 2
http://www.forbestvision.com/dynamic-fixation-trainer-2/

I added my mod of doing the convergence on the monitor and moving my head forth until I see no doubly images and back beyond the edge of blur. After weeks the distance I saw double (and so me edge of focus) became longer.
I did about 8 minutes convergence and another 8 min divergence every day except Sunday, the doc said some time more.

It is better to do firstly all the exercises the site suggests and read the theory and even the comments.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: RynEyes on April 12, 2015, 04:26:36 PM
Alex_Myopic,

2 months ago, before I began using the plus lens for near work and practicing edge of blur techniques, I had lots of trouble doing any of the divergence exercises the doc recommends.  Convergence was cake, but I just couldn't get my eyes to agree to do the divergence exercises.

Now, the divergence exercises are much easier (it's like I've gained a sense of how it feels to relax the eyes into divergence); however, I'm still having a little difficulty with them.

My mod of Dr Davydov's specific routine for diplopia.

 Also in the first week you might manage divergence only with peripheral vision.


Could you explain what you mean by this?  With convergence exercises, the center image has extreme detail once I correctly converge the images.  Will the same be true in the divergence exercises?
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on April 13, 2015, 02:08:13 AM
@RynEyes

In order to achieve the divergence exercise as discribed by the doc, you must have your two visual axis completely parallel and focus not at far but at 0.5m at the symbols (with the aid of plus lenses this near becomes also "far")

 I couldn't get my eyes parallel in order to fuse in the divergence so the symbols got close but didn't fuse Some weeks later with constant practice while looking at far (about 6m) I neared the paper with the symbols printed at the very top of the paper so while looking at far with my peripheral vision I could see the symbols fused! The moment I tried to see the symbols with my central vision my eyes started to converge naturally (so the symbols went away from each other). After some weeks I just needed the far stimulus to get my eyes parallel and just raised the paper with the symbols to see them (or it when fused) completely fused with my central vision and even larger from the convergence exercise because in the convergence each eye looks a symbol diagonally so there is greater distance. I can see the fused symbol perfectly clear. The above clears what I meant "you might manage divergence only with peripheral vision."

The doc in order to help starters, advices to start with the distance of the symbols the half of our PD and then increase gradually. Also we can collage the symbols to a glass or a glass of frame so we can see far and parallelize the eyes while having the symbols close to our central vision. The advice of printing the symbols at the very top of the paper and slowly raise it close to our central vision while looking far was also his.

It is better to do the divergence without plus until you manage it. Without blur the "auto-fusing" mechanism works better. Then add plus.

"Will the same be true in the divergence exercises?"
Yes! And even if you hold the paper at exactly 0.5m in the convergence and divergence, you will see that in divergence the symbol is slightly magnified because of my above analysis.

The doc said that the more the myopia the harder is to achieve this divergence but divergence is more helpful than convergence in myopia.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: RynEyes on April 13, 2015, 10:04:05 AM
Alex_Myopic,

Thanks for the response.  It is good to hear that similarly to the convergence exercise, when the fusion in divergence is done correctly, the image can be seen with your central vision in sharp detail.  This is how I believed it to work, but I had yet to be able to achieve it, so I was unsure.

I believe that I too am in the stage of diplopia in my rehab.  My distance vision has resolved greatly, but there is now a slight but noticeable amount of vertical ghosting, above the true image.  It is unnoticeable in my day to day activities, but quite apparent while viewing white text against a black background on an LCD television. It is also noticeable on well lit street signs at night.

As for the text on the television, I’ve found that if I cover the top part of my eye(s) with my hand, the ghosting disappears.  Has anyone else been able to resolve the ghosting with this method or have any idea why it works?  Will strengthening the superior and inferior rectus muscles as you have noted correct this?
 
Thanks
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on April 13, 2015, 10:38:36 AM
"I’ve found that if I cover the top part of my eye(s) with my hand, the ghosting disappears.  Has anyone else been able to resolve the ghosting with this method or have any idea why it works?"

I believe it is due to the pinhole effect. Also if I almost close my eyelids a lot my diplopia goes away.

"Will strengthening the superior and inferior rectus muscles as you have noted correct this?"

In the astigmatism by the rule the about vertical meridian in the eyeball is more myopic, so the doc suggests these forces to act with the corresponding muscles. Moreover you put pressure in the about vertical axis in the cornea as in my astigmatic mirror mod, you'll make the diplopia less.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: RynEyes on April 13, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
In what ways does not being able to correctly do the divergence exercises manifest itself in one's distance vision? My understanding is that to do it correctly, your eyes need to be parallel. And isn't being parallel is the optimal position for the eyes to see far into the distance?
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on April 14, 2015, 12:18:26 PM
@RynEyes

The relationship between accommodation and convergence is broken when you try to look at 0.5m with parallel eyes. In fact a mild plus makes it easier if it doesn't blur too much because then we have parallel eyes and almost zero accommodation as when looking at far while we look at 0.5m.

So maybe with the divergence exercise except for myopic defocus we might have better focusing ability at far and a relationship of A/C as if we were looking far.

http://www.forbestvision.com/accommodation-and-convergence/
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on April 26, 2015, 03:53:44 AM
A very good post for diplopia. Looks almost like active focus. I'll try this on the astigmatic wheel.

Quote
The process I generally use is this: go outside, find something with high contrast. lampposts are good for this against the sky. Pull focus. blink. wait till the two images are sharp then stare and try not to blink. keep staring. after staring for a while things go a little hazy. blink a few times and the images should be aligned. This might not last for long but consistently doing it over time will result in less and less effort being required and the images combining for longer and longer periods. Also one of the 2 images gradually gets stronger over time and the other more faint.

http://endmyopia.org/johnny-working-double-vision-astigmatism-reduction/ (http://endmyopia.org/johnny-working-double-vision-astigmatism-reduction/)

I don't know if the paid courses of endmyopia suggests anything better for diplopia. At my stage diplopia must be worse than remaining myopia on day.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on April 27, 2015, 09:37:55 AM
Quote
Additional Secondary Images
In order to simplify this discussion, it has been limited to the primary and secondary focal points and their images, i.e. diplopia. It would be more accurate to say polyopia, because there are other focal points situated between the primary and secondary focal points. Testing a number of myopes with different lens powers revealed that there are often other images, fainter "ghost" images that are more difficult to detect. The origin of these could be the various isoindicial surfaces within the lens. There is evidence for this in the fact that many myopes, especially high myopes, when viewing a scene such as a full moon, without corrective lenses, see, instead of a uniform diffuse blur, multiple moon images.

Although I didn't appreciate it at the time, it was fortunate that the first subject for the experiment was myself. If I had found a willing emmetrope, or a subject with only a small degree of myopia, the outcome would probably been very different. The experiment would probably produced a small degree of myopia, partly from axial elongation and partly from lens changes (just as I believe occurs in normal myopia). The significant point, however, is that I would never have suspected the lens, but would have attributed the increase in myopia to axial elongation alone. Because I was a myope of fairly high degree, flattening of the periphery of the lens was probably quite advanced, so that the secondary focal point was already located very close to the retina. It then required very little additional flattening to push it all the way, or very close to, the retina, at which time I became aware of the secondary image.

...
The presence of dual vision suggests strongly that there were two separate focal points.
...
The many studies retinal defocus apparently fail to include the possible effect of spherical aberration. If negative spherical aberration begins at a certain point in accommodation, the presence of two focal points could conceivably "confuse" the input from the autonomic nervous system. In the case of a very near point of fixation, one focal point might be situated in front of the retina, and one behind, especially in the case of a myope.
...
Lens Changes Hidden

If significant lens changes do occur with long-term accommodation that produces two focal points, this might go undetected in routine visual examinations. In a myope with a moderate degree of myopia, the posterior surface of the lens might be flattened just enough to have created a second focal point, but one that does not actually reach the retina. In a routine eye examination, the ophthalmologist or optometrist would never discover this for two reasons: He will probably not look for something whose existence he is unaware of; and because the second focal point would not reach all the way to the retina, no clear secondary image is formed. Only the appropriate lens power would move the secondary focal point to the retina and thus form a clear secondary image.
...
Could the almost universally accepted view that lens is unimportant in myopia be wrong?
...
If the hypothesis of the oblique muscle/vitreous/lens connection is confirmed, it could open the way to prevent or slow the progression of myopia by preventing accommodation and. convergence while performing nearwork.


http://www.i-see.org/incyclorotator.html] (http://[/quote)

http://www.i-see.org/incyclorotator.html[/url]
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on April 28, 2015, 09:50:53 AM
Richard McCollim's description of diplopia and it's causes is what I think is correct. Dr Alex said about the brain, others just like astigmatism (the cornea or myopic meridians). The effect of accommodation on diplopia I have posted before also matches his description about the inner lens. So as Mr Becker and Dr Alex described, trying to fuse or "not see" the faint ghost image might be the trick in diplopia and not pressure to the cornea as I suggested (and something like the weird experiment in the link above!) or training the superior and inferior rectus muscles. I also believe that at the stage of diplopia it slows down the good effect of plus lenses.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on April 28, 2015, 01:48:47 PM
Finally I managed how to fuse a ghosting image in an exercise!
I do now the astigmatic wheel mod as I edited.
http://forum.gettingstronger.org/index.php/topic,1007.msg7711.html#msg7711
A good trick is to pick a line in the angle that is not ghosting on two lines of equal strength but in one stronger and one fainter. Then trying to move them too close in order to fuse while making the faint line more fainter.
It is as active focus with one eye, and tear may come after the effort.

Of course the astigmatic mirror must be beyond the blur zone to see the ghosting images quite far from one another.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on May 14, 2015, 02:04:34 PM
"We should consider combining long periods of print pushing during normal activities like reading, with occasional use of active double image focusing to stimulate more rapid progress. What the proper balance is between these two activities is something to find out empirically."

Words from Mr Becker to Bill when Bill noticed no further improvement while print pushing in the stage of diplopia.

http://gettingstronger.org/rehabilitation/ (http://gettingstronger.org/rehabilitation/)


A notice I have made is that in my astigmatic mirror exercise mod, the moment I can fuse the line I had selected I can also fuse the two lines that are close to this line but not the lines that are in an other areas. The original astigmatic mirror exercise is very good, but suggested fusing the whole wheel and so I couldn't do that and missed the fusion with active focusing, even though succeeding in only one line at a time this way.

http://www.i-see.org/astigmirror.html

Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on May 18, 2015, 11:24:30 AM
In relation to the "tilting the head while looking the astigmatic wheel with one eye" experiment (http://forum.gettingstronger.org/index.php/topic,1114.0.html (http://forum.gettingstronger.org/index.php/topic,1114.0.html)):
Not 100% surely but if it was the cornea or the lens that causes diplopia then with this experiment the darkest lines shouldn't change but they do.

But if the oblique muscles can change the shape of the cornea then with tilting the head we have a huge relation to the changing of shape fo the oblique muscles with this movement, while having the cornea not moving so having it change according to the moving oblique muscles. The "moving" darkest lines could then correspond to the changes in shape (but bot moving) cornea due to the 2 oblique muscles changing shape.

Also if there are some myopic meridians in the myopic astigmatism they could change with this head tilting since the two oblique muscles are moving in relation to the still eyeball and these muscles zone the eyeball like a belt.

"The left eye, which was the poorer of the two, showed a minimum of 3.00D. of Ast. against the rule, and this amount would actually double for a few seconds and then return to the minimum. This change was evidently due to some action of the oblique muscles and occurred when the eye was directed toward the tube, while there was a slight turning of the head."

"After six or seven vigorous muscle treatments, the ophthalmometer showed a decrease in Ast. Subjectively,"

...the point I want to bring out is: That corneal astigmatism does change and often lessens and sometimes disappears after thorough muscle treatments.

Likewise, the symptoms attributed to refractive errors often vanish after muscular treatments, even through the refractive error remains. In other words, the symptoms may be due to wrong muscular condition and not to the refraction. This will account for some of the "miraculous" cures made by the kind of doctors whose slogan is "throw away your spex.""


from the "Changes in Corneal Astigmatism"  http://www.i-see.org/parker.html
 (http://www.i-see.org/parker.html)

http://www.i-see.org/cornea.html (http://www.i-see.org/cornea.html)

***********
Human Corneas

    Bierly JR, Hainsworth DP, Schmeisser ET, Baker RS. Effect of extraocular muscle surgery on corneal topography. Invest Ophthalmol Vis Sci 1993;31(suppl):1249.
    Bowman KJ, Smith G, Carney LG. 1979. Corneal Topography and Monocular Diplopia Following Near Work. Am J Optom & Physiol Opt 55:818-823.
    Fairmaid, J.A. 1959. The Constancy of Corneal Curvature: An Examination of Corneal Response to Changes in Accommodation and Convergence.
    Home, Everard. 1795. The Croonian Lecture on Muscular Motion. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London, vol. 85, p. 1ff.
    Knoll, Henry A. 1975. Bilateral Monocular Diplopia After Near Work. American Journal of Optometry and Physiological Optics 52:139-40, 432 (errata).
    Kwitko S; Feldon S; McDonnell PJ. 1992. Corneal topographic changes following strabismus surgery in Grave's disease. Cornea 11: 36-40.
    Parker, J.W. 1930. Changes in Corneal Astigmatism. Optical Journal and Review, April 11, 1930, 21-22.
    Preslan MW; Cioffi G; Min YI. 1992. Refractive error changes following strabismus surgery. J-Pediatr-Ophthalmol-Strabismus 29:300-4.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on June 20, 2015, 02:07:36 PM
Some comments about the "focus on the strongest image and try to fuse". Although it is amazing that we have the ability to clear temporarily and to some extent diplopia this way as Mr Becker and Dr Alex described:

1) When I am finally at the point that I can fuse after some minutes of trying, I am only able to do it in one line and in one or two lines away from the line I'm focusing and NOT at the whole astigmatic wheel. If it is just a brain's matter, why I cannot clear the whole picture at once just like active focusing? It is as if I can see finally the doubled line as one just because I have managed to turn the axis of astigmatism (without moving) and so the rest of the lines should be doubled and not clear.

2) Two months of hard active focusing and "fusing diplopia method" and I haven't had a result at the Snellen although I can see small subtitles more easily even at the afternoon. Despite fascinating these exercises, I haven't lock in.

3) I haven't read many people healing their diplopia except from Mr Becker and few others. Does Mr Becker sees the astigmatic wheel clearly now or almost clear? If yes I think he had a big success with the above method, maybe harder to gain than gaining myopia rehabilitation.

In this article only repetitive images monocular diplopia is said to be due to cerebral reason (non organic) and not ghosting diplopia which is due to refractive errors.
http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/75/suppl_4/iv24.full.pdf
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on October 22, 2015, 02:14:36 PM
Some guys using the PVS method, reducing myopia and increasing myopic astigmatism! Something like gaining plus cylinders but not plus diopters.

http://www.powervisionforum.com/forum/showthread.php?957-Can-you-prove-your-improvement-isn-t-due-to-ASTIGMATISM (http://www.powervisionforum.com/forum/showthread.php?957-Can-you-prove-your-improvement-isn-t-due-to-ASTIGMATISM)
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on November 09, 2015, 02:13:46 PM
After the very good mentioning by another guy that turning your head towards the shoulders makes changes to the astigmatic wheel, I would like to mention also that if for example someone with diplopia stares at a letter on the computer screen with plus lenses and moves his head the same way (only one eye looking), then he will see the whole ghosting letter moving clockwise or anti-clockwise in relation to the strong image.! At some angle degree of head tilting, reading becomes more difficult.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 06, 2016, 05:21:41 AM
For some weeks I have clear flashes of 20/20 vision. I haven't confirmed it with a Snellen chart yet but I know. When I have these flashes I close one eye and see very clearly because my main problem diplopia (and not myopia now) is zeroed. And these flashes stay a lot even if I blink so I they are good ones and not just from hard blinking. The bad thing is that this 20/20 vision comes from my left good eye (the one that is going through RCE syndrome now) becoming even better eliminating diplopia while my worse right stays the same. I have to patch to make my right eye better.

And due to RCE I did only plus lenses and good vision habits for the last 1-2 months. The point I am trying to make is not to give up. Diplopia may be worse than myopia at the last diopter but with time maybe it will be eliminated completely and these frequent flashes lock in.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 09, 2016, 05:18:39 AM
Today was a sunny day and I could do a Snellen chart measurement. I can confirm I'm now 20/20 and saw all the letters of the 20 line. No diplopia! The bad thing is that by right eye stayed behind and my left got super acute. The months before me having RCE syndrome I did PVS again and a very good advise from endmyopia to just stare letters, subs or signs until diplopia clears and did this with one eye each time.

Something I would like to mention is that some days that the syndrome teared a little my corneal surface, I saw with haze but the main picture was sharper than before or with other words a sharper picture but with halos. Could that was a sign of corneal reshaping I'm not sure. During injuries the body can heal even better, the treatment of retinal detachment is mainly to provoke an injury to the retina in order to connect better to the eyeball, in my RCE syndrome the doctor provoked me an injury (scraping off the whole epithelium) in order for better tissue to develop, also some doctors may cut a bone at half and then pull it a little day by day in order to elongate and become the same length as the other one. My better vision started before my epithelium removal.

My above post shows that it is not just blur distinguishing of a chart as some say about vision rehabilitation but it is true improvement. I've noticed even an improvement from 20/25 to 20/20 before doing the Snellen chart in my everyday life. So the Snellen chart is a good measurement.

Thanks a lot Mr Otis Brown for his help and inviting me to this helpful forum about 2,5 year ago and the members and admin (Todd Becker) of this forum. It makes you more happy to have good vision without glasses.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: OtisBrown on January 09, 2016, 05:35:42 PM
Hi,

Thanks for your success.  My own experience with the Snellen, is that all normal eyes are "inconsistent".  By that, I say my eyes are excellent and normal.  But what I do see, is variation - that I consider totally normal.  I see 20/20, almost all the time.  From general checking, I am certain I see 20/15 in flashes - but I do not bother with that issue.  Yes - some days, I will have 20/25 vision, and then I blink, and get 20/20.

I am very objective about this issue.  I am certain, that if I did not check myself, and went to an OD, who would find that I could read 20/15 to 20/12, though a strong minus lens - I would be prescribed a strong minus lens.  This is why we must check - and Todd checks.  I do not "dispute" the OD, I just never take him seriously, PROVIDED, I check at home.  For people with a "weak prescription", they would be well advised to check.  That is the only way you get out from "under the thumb" of an over-prescribing OD.

Equally, and from long experience, going from 20/40 to 20/20 takes a very long time.  That is truly why no OD can help you with this issue.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: User1235 on January 10, 2016, 05:30:55 AM
Wow great alex,you finally made it :) .I hope to reach there one day too, maybe you could give me some helpful tips?I hope to see you still actively contributing to the forum :D :D.It's a great help to us newbies
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 10, 2016, 06:07:34 AM
@OtisBrown
In the initial weeks of my progress it came as frequent flashes but it is becoming more and more stable. And I agree that we shouldn't be overprescribed by the fact that all normal eyes are "inconsistent". I even think that even correcting -0.25D added to the non dominant eye so that we don't have equal prescription for both eyes might then do the dominant less strong or non dominant even if we haven;t changed its prescription. So it is a vicious cycle.

@User1235
I hope to see progress from other members of this topic too! I don't have to add more other than my last posts on tips for my last improvement. I did PVS and "diplopia clearing with one eye staring" but the weird thing is that for the last 2 months I was able to do just plus lenses and good vision habits due to my corneal erosion.  I also used hyaluronic with eyebright drops, good to the cornea but I don't thing it reduces myopia. I have a long way to improve my right eye also. So we must persevere.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 11, 2016, 01:14:29 PM
In my case now, I believe having the brain a good left eye with no diplopia and a bad right with diplopia chooses to cancel off diplopia so that's why maybe more suppressed image from the right eye.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 25, 2016, 11:59:39 AM
A very good video of Jake about Double Vision vs. Blur. He suggests "the stare tactic".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyB7Qu6R2ew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyB7Qu6R2ew)
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 28, 2016, 05:55:17 AM
With time I believe more and more that this diplopia after rehabilitation is more of a brain's matter as Dr Alex and Jake say. They also say that with good vision habits and plus lenses the eye changes in a good way so fast that the brain can't catch up.

With my last measurements I can even see 20/20 only with one eye, the one that diplopia has gone away. The right one that I'm complaining about is about 20/40 and the bad thing is that it doesn't have one sharp image and a second more faint but the two images are about the same sharpness-darkeness or can even alternate the stronger image becoming weaker and vice versa.

So the most likely scenario is that my brain worked well for resolving diplopia in my left eye, gave his whole work on my left eye and left behind the other eye unregulated from diplopia.

So the eyes can heal quickly (about a diopter per year) from myopia but at the last dioptre the diplopia needs more time to be resolved by the brain (in order to catch up).

I also believe that if I hadn't diplopia at my right eye then this eye would be 20/20 now even if now is 20/40.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: OtisBrown on January 28, 2016, 10:34:31 AM
Hi Alex,

A lot of people are successful - and don't know it.  From my own research, it is very clear that two NORMAL eyes can have a refractive difference of 3/4 to 1 diopter.  Believe it or not - that is normal.  Further, you test with both eyes open, on a bright Snellen, and you have 20/20.  That is real success, that all the rest of us can only dream about.

It my private judgment, if you are willing to continue, then both eyes will change by about +1/2 diotper, in about six months.  That means that one eye will have a "positive status" (totally normal), and the other eye will "get to" 20/20.  But this is totally personal.  The only person who can ever do this and judge this - is yourself. 

Thanks for your successful report - we need more people like you.


With time I believe more and more that this diplopia after rehabilitation is more of a brain's matter as Dr Alex and Jake say. They also say that with good vision habits and plus lenses the eye changes in a good way so fast that the brain can't catch uo.

With my last measurements I can even see 20/20 only with one eye, the one that diplopia has gone away. The right one that I'm complaining about is about 20/40 and the bad thing is that it doesn't have one sharp image and a second more faint but the two images are about the same sharpness-darkeness or can even alternate the stronger image becoming weaker and vice versa.

So the most likely scenario is that my brain worked well for resolving diplopia in my left eye, gave his whole work on my left eye and left behind the other eye unregulated from diplopia.

So the eyes can heal quickly (about a diopter per year) from myopia but at the last dioptre the diplopia needs more time to be resolved by the brain (in order to catch up).

I also believe that if I hadn't diplopia at my right eye then this eye would be 20/20 now even if now is 20/40.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 28, 2016, 12:04:54 PM
Thanks for the reply Mr Brown. Of course I will continue to wear plus lenses for all close work, even some mild plus for 1-2 hours when in home until as you said having a good +3/4 refractive state which means wearing +3/4D and seeing 20/20. But even if I don't succeed in that I'm very glad by now. My next step is patching and plus lenses for my right eye to catch up and doing my astigmatic wheel mod exercise, some months per year PVS and sometimes active focus with one eye.

Of course as you have written having a refractive difference of 3/4 to 1 dioptre is not a big deal in everyday life but I think beyond 0.5D difference I think one eye is becoming a little lazy if not corrected with lenses as I do not wear minus glasses at all so the blur zone is much closer in one eye.
Title: Re: Diplopia
Post by: Alex_Myopic on March 21, 2017, 03:44:07 PM
I stood very lucky and noticed the following that supports more my claiming that diplopia in the last dioptre of rehab is astigmatism, exchanging dioptres for cylinders, principal meridians in the eye that don't come to emmetropic shape at the shame rate (?) or inner lens astigmatism that maybe due to the visual cortex not controlling the eye well.

I was watching tv and tilting my almost empty glass of water. Than starting playing and saw through the prism (glass) with my eye that has diplopia. I saw almost 20/20 with no diplopia and read letters that couldn't before, just looking through the glass! Then thought that the external and internal surface of the glass of water is CYLINDER, the same word for measuring astigmatism and the same surface as prisms-lenses for astigmatism!

My glass of water was almost empty, it was not big in diameter and I had to tilt it in order to look through only one layer of glass and not two(=through the whole tumbler).