Getting Stronger: Discussion Forum

Discussion Topics => Rehabilitation => Topic started by: OtisBrown on August 06, 2014, 03:46:07 AM

Title: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on August 06, 2014, 03:46:07 AM
Subject:  Musa contacted me, about preserving his distant vision, by wearing a plus for close work.

I asked him to post his questions on this thread - so that we can all learn together about the reasons and the need to wear a plus before our vision gets "worse than" 20/40.

I believe in sharing the concept of prevention and discussing the need for it - together.

I would start by asking Musa to read Dr. Alex's site:

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/

And Dr. Kaisu's site:

http://kaisuviikari.com/wordpress/

These sites, "Prevention, the challenge for the future", suggest that prevention is possible.

But the real issue is this.  Is the person willing to accept the need for long-term wearing of a plus, to keep his Snellen clear during the school years.

What we should ask is this question.  Has ANYONE used the plus - and slowly got their Snellen to go from 20/40 (about -1 diopter) to 20/20 (0.0 diopters) completely by their own efforts with a plus lens.

I think the answer is yes.  But it will all depend on your motivation and insights to keep wearing the plus - during the school years.


Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on August 11, 2014, 05:30:18 AM
Hi Musa,

Subject:  I do not normally post success stories - but this is an example of how a "low-value" prescription was over-come.

Item: I understand you are young, and in school.  The records of college show the natural eye "going down" by -1/2 diopter per year.  If you go to college - you can expect to "go down" by a lot more than your -1 diopter at this point.

It is a hard thing to "face into a difficult problem", and come to grips with it.  In fact I doubt that most people will take it seriously when they are at 20/30 to 20/40. (about -1 diopter).

I expect that most people will "let it go", and I expect you to do that also.  But, you can expect to go down below 20/100, in three years.  Perhaps when that happens - you might take prevention seriously.  But I do not know you, and what your capabilities are.  You have about three years to make your preventive choice.  Just do not wait too long.

+++++++

By Neil,

I’m amazed by how quickly my eyes have been improving over the past 15 days!

When I first started, I had just been (over-)prescribed at -2.00D/-1.75D after about a decade at -1.00D. I was wearing my minus lenses all day, even for close-up work (if only I had known then what I know now…).

On day 1 of the program I could clear 20/70 on my Snellen but not 20/50. I started wearing +0.5D glasses for close-up work.

Today, I cleared 20/25 on my Snellen for the first time! (This was mid-day, in natural light, after a long walk where I was practicing pulling focus; my vision still isn’t anywhere near this good at night, but that’s expected.) I’ve moved up to +1.25D glasses for close-up work, which puts the edge of blur at around 65 cm. I only put my minus glasses on now when I need to be able to read text on the TV or on a whiteboard or screen across the room at work.

I’m amazed that just making the following small changes has had such a drastic effect:
- wearing plus lenses for all close-up work
- 10 minutes of peripheral vision exercises each day (2×5 minutes)
- making an active effort to try to read distant signs when I’m out walking (walking is my primary mode of transportation so I do this for 1-2 hours/day)

I haven’t started adding more carrots to my diet yet, but I’ve now found a local source of organic vegetables so I’ll be starting that later this week.

The legal requirement for driving here is 20/50 binocular vision. At some point I’ll have to go swing by the licensing office and get them to remove the “corrective lenses required” restriction on my license, which will be a really exciting milestone. Right now I can’t be bothered standing in line for an hour just to get that changed, but it’s nice to know I should be able to pass the vision test now!

Thanks for all your work on writing down your program and making it available to us online, Dr. Frauenfeld. After years of automatically believing what doctors told me about myopia being irreversible it’s really fun watching my vision improve. :) I’m looking forward to being 20/20 again someday!

Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on August 13, 2014, 03:26:18 PM
Hi Otis,
If i were to read with the plus fairly close, about 15cm. Will the lenses be effective
Thanks
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 01, 2014, 01:20:34 PM
Hi Otis,
I thought i should post here instead. So to clear things up:
1) Keep using +2 but at 20 inches
2) Check own refractive state using -1 and -0.5 lenses (didn't understand this)
Can you explain "push print" to me also?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 01, 2014, 03:42:55 PM
Hi Musa,

I know there is no perfect way to describe or suggest that it would be wise to wear a plus -- but perhaps this video will help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiuC7a1lkrk

But no one can ever "perscribe it", and no OD ever will.  The kids do not have the interest, and the parents prohibit.  But that is for you to decide.  This is why no OD or MD had any interest in prevention - nor do I blame them.

1)  If you are reading the 20/30 to 20/50 line, then you can use a relatively strong plus for all close work.  But I can not tell you "exactly" what lens you should use.  Using "basic optics", and that information, you can figure that you can wear ABOUT a +2 to +2.5 diopter when reading at 20 inches.  But to choose the exact value, you must start with a +2. and read at 15 inches - to start.  The slowly "push away", until the reading is noticeably blurry. This will be at about 30 inches. Then begin to "pull in" until the reading "just clears".  That is how you choose a COMFORTABLE reading lens.  If you "pull in" as read at 10 inches, they you have "cancelled out" the entire purpose of wearing a plus - and you will achieve NO EFFECT.

2) Measuring your refractive state - is pure "extra-credit".  The reason is that an OD can not help you to measure your refractive state.  Further, he will ALWAYS over-prescribe you by about -1 diopters.  The reason is that he does not want to discuss, avoiding the minus, and why you would want to avoid the -2 he will prescribe for you.

3) A great deal of pure-science, shows that the minus, worn all the time, not only does not help, but in fact makes matters far worse, over a period of six years (high school through college).  The plus does not fix anything "instantly".  It only gets "rid of" THE EFFECT of long-term near work on your eyes.

4)  The story is this.  In an office, a minus is VERY IMPRESSIVE. It fixes the obvious. It is very difficult for an OD to tell you (at 20/40) that he does not want to fix the obvious.  He must tell you to "hold off", and "fix the near", or "get rid of the near" by wearing a plus for all close work.

5) The purpose of getting a -1 and -1/2 diopter, is for self checking. I believe that a person who has his own Snellen, and reads it at 20/50, then holds up his own -1, and sees 20/20 through it, will have a better grasp of this concept.  But now, he "does it himself" - which I consider a necessary empowerment, that will make you wise about what you are doing - and develop more knowledge about optics in that process.

6) But the entire process is get you to think about what you are doing, or might choose to do.

7) My attitude is this.  I present the basic facts - and SUGGEST a preventive method.  But the only person who will persuade you to do anything at all - is yourself.

8) There is nothing easy about any of this.  Some people seem to "intuitively" understand all of the above.  They wear their plus lens, when they see their vision going down towards 20/40, and just keep on wearing the plus, until they get back towards 20/20.  But almost everyone else can not "figure it out" that way.


Hi Otis,
I thought i should post here instead. So to clear things up:
1) Keep using +2 but at 20 inches
2) Check own refractive state using -1 and -0.5 lenses (didn't understand this)
Can you explain "push print" to me also?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 02, 2014, 05:10:13 AM
Hi Otis,
Thanks for your helpful answer. I know this question does seem quite broad, but how long do you think of wearing the plus do you think it will take for someone to improve their eyesight in my position by .25 D-- for e.g. going from -1.25 to -1.
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 02, 2014, 05:18:53 AM
Hi Musa,

That is an excellent question - because I asked it myself about the Bates' method, and attempted to answer it, not in terms of "medicine" or a "medical-type" answer.

The question becomes, "... I am THINKING of wearing a plus..., and ... how long must I wear the plus ... until I can QUIT wearing the plus...".

That is truly the reason why a plus can never be prescribed for prevention, by any person who is medical.  I am not insulting your intelligence with this discussion.

The other issue, is people who "lock" onto a prescription, like they are going to "cure" -1.25 diopters of myopia - and under medical control.  I have yet to find anyone who has done that - with the involvement of a medical person.

The realistic question, should be, "... how long must I wear a plus, until I confirm, objectively that I read the 20/40 line, or better....".

The answer to that question is this ... as long as it takes.  If you do  not want to wear the plus, then, of course do not do it.  There is nothing that is casual, or "cure" about the plus.

This is still in the "education" phase for you - which I accept and understand.  What convinces me that the plus must be used for the long-term, is the "plus" study, conducted by  Dr. Young.  I will post that in due course.

http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/study/

Prevention is not medicine, and few people will take any time to understand statistics.  But the person who chooses to reject any wearing of a plus (and self-snellen check) should actually look at these statistics.  (Easy to read.)

Vis 6-17, LLPD.  (Readable format).  I also posted this as a spread sheet.

If you look, you will find the students, NOT wearing a plus, go down at a rate of 2/3 diopters per year, and then -1/2 diopter per year.  In fact, this process continues through college.  A person who does not believe this - is kidding himself.

The plus group did not go down.  In fact a few went up (very slowly, I agree).

But this study was "forced wearing" of a plus by children who had no idea of what they were doing, how to do it or why they were doing it.
(This is why a child can not be successful with the plus).

But for a person who is old enough (but still at 20/50), I think the results could be different.  But this becomes  your responsiblity to study and  decide.

Of course, Musa, if you find a person advertising you can get out of myopia in two weeks - why not buy their package - and report back on your results?

Of course, if this product works for you - there would be no further reason to ask any questions on this site.  But give it a try.

Hi Otis,
Thanks for your helpful answer. I know this question does seem quite broad, but how long do you think of wearing the plus do you think it will take for someone to improve their eyesight in my position by .25 D-- for e.g. going from -1.25 to -1.
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 02, 2014, 05:32:54 AM
Is this accurate? Only 2 weeks? http://restore-my-vision-now.com/?hop=catardat
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 02, 2014, 07:48:59 PM
Hi Musa,

You will find many claims.  But it up to you to judge.  Read this:

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/how-to-improve-eyesight-2040-to-2015/

Since you are reading 20/50 at this time - you might try it for about four months and let us know of your success.  You are the only person who can confirm objective results on your own Snellen. 


Is this accurate? Only 2 weeks? http://restore-my-vision-now.com/?hop=catardat
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 03, 2014, 07:50:06 AM
Hello Otis,
Over the past few months, i kept a close eye on your contribution to helping people restore 20/20. You are extremely helpful to me and others im sure of. However, i woul like to know- without sounding rude- what is your gain out of this; a person who has accomplished 20/20. Please answer anyway you like- maybe not at all- because i know this might sound obnoxious and i will understand.
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 03, 2014, 07:54:43 AM
Hello Otis,
Just read that link you sent. One question: one who has achieved 20/20 through the plus method, will they have to continue this method even after their eyes stabilize.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 03, 2014, 10:34:19 AM
Hi Musa,

Subject: Massive claims about "cure"  ... but with what results?

That was my question - when  I reviewed Dr. Bates study, a very long time ago.  I felt that there was some truth in Dr. Bates, but that "just prevention" was extremely difficult.  In fact, I have documented this issue myself.  When I talk about true-prevention, I mean that the person learns to "avoid the minus at all costs".  That means he personally verifies he always passes the 20/40 line - himself - with no exceptions.

That means, a degree of compromise, perhaps.  The compromise, is that I wear a plus, and for the long-term, at that.  It also means that I objectively verify my visual acuity MYSELF.  No OD can help you with this.  You must do it yourself. 

It is this the "independence" of mind, that is so difficult - for all of us.  This is a truth - I never deny.  I also do not claim "success" because it depends on insight and fortitude of the person himself.  No one can "control" you to do what is necessary.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION (restricted to starting with 20/60 vision):  Yes, pilots manage to do it, and confirm 20/20. They do it, because no OD can do it for them.  They do it, because they know that they MUST read the 20/20 line - at home - before they go for an FAA exam. They do it because pilots get paid $100,000 per year to be flight qualified.  That means that they wear the plus, if they see their Snellen go down-to 20/30.  I truly do not think anyone else will make that type of long-term commitment.  There is no "struggle" with an OD about this issue, because the pilot always passes the 20/20 line.  There is also no COST to them - to do it.

For everyone else - well they totally lack the motivation to do anything like that.

So yes, presuming you over-come your natural "resistance" to wearing a plus for near, it is possible to avoid nearsightedness, and yes, if you do manage to pass the 20/25 line - you can keep your distant vision - when all your friends lose their distant vision.

I know you (and everyone else) will object - by saying, "... you mean I have to wear glasses ... to avoid wearing glasses..."

I have heard that statement many times.  But that is truly the question you will have to answer yourself - because I can not answer it for you.

Quite frankly, the people who I know for certain (because I trust THEIR measurements), have used BOTH, "exercise" and the plus.  It would be nuts to not use both!!

They also start from a "mild" level of about 20/60, and about -1.5 diopters. 

The 'deeper science' (that is my concern) simply proves that it is possible.  But no force on earth, can make you do it.

Otis





Hello Otis,
Just read that link you sent. One question: one who has achieved 20/20 through the plus method, will they have to continue this method even after their eyes stabilize.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 03, 2014, 01:20:21 PM
Hi Otis,
That reminds me: can you please elaborate on eye exercises such as: which ones are most effective and how long to do them and so on...
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 04, 2014, 07:54:16 AM
Hi Otis,
Would i have to take my reading glasses to school? If i use them only for close work at home, will they still be kinda effective?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 12, 2014, 10:21:59 AM
Hi Otis,
I thought about doing eye exercises 10 mins a day. Is this OK? Also, i thought there were more most on this thread.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 12, 2014, 10:56:08 AM
Hi Musa,

You are right, of course.  Everyone want to feel that "exercise will do it".  But I have yet to find anyone who did "pure exercise", and objectively got to 20/20 !!!  But yes, if you feel doing exercise for 10 minutes a day - will get you back to 20/20, then you should try it.

You have a Snellen chart, and know how to read it.  I understand you can read the 20/50 line at this time.

You have six future years of school to complete.

If you can do exercise, and get back to 20/20 - that would be wonderful.  But it would be extremely rare for you to succeed.

But full responsibility - rests exclusively with you.   

Another young man (Capitol Prince) is about your age, and about 20/40.  He also is doing exercise.  He also judges that is the correct way, and will become successful.

It is easy.  You just have to do it - and eventually read the letters on the 20/20 line.

Hi Otis,
I thought about doing eye exercises 10 mins a day. Is this OK? Also, i thought there were more most on this thread.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 12, 2014, 12:15:47 PM
Hi Otis,
I think you are a little confused. Im doing: plus lense + eye exercises. I havent given up on eye excercises. What worries me though is the line:"But it would be extremely rare for you to succeed."
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 12, 2014, 03:13:49 PM
Hi Musa,

If you choose, "only exercise", which I thought you said, then it would be rare.

The people who I know who are successful, have used a combination of so-called "exercise", and steady, consistent wearing of the plus - for almost all close work.  I do not consider this to be "medical" nor a "medical solution".

I think I posted this before - but I will do it again.  If you do not wear the plus - though the school years, your vision will go down by -1/2 diopter per year - for EACH YEAR YOU ARE IN SCHOOL.  This is why I say that exercise ALONE WILL NOT DO IT.

Further, people promise they will do "exercise for 10 minutes a day" - and then they "forget" after six months - if not sooner.

The plus is different.  Just do not "forget" to put the plus on when you read.  (It may not make sense to you - but it DOES make sense to me.)

No one who is "medical" has ANY INTEREST, NOR WILL YOU GET THEIR SUPPORT.

I consider it a success if you 1) Always EXCEED THE 20/40 LINE - objectively  2) Continue to wear the plus though college.  3) Teach yourself how to obtain a minus lens from Zennioptical - and do your own checking with it.

This is a high order of intellectual responsibility.  I do not tell a person to do this - I give you the facts, and then you must figure-out what is important in  your life.

I do not think a person can get out of much more than 20/60.  But you will see for yourself.

http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/study/

You can call this data "depressing".  But it DOES show the kids wearing a minus lens - go down at -1/2 diopter per year.  (That is indeed yourself for the next six years).

The data shows that the young people, who wore the plus, did not go down.  (But these were "kids".)

What can be inferred from this basic scientific data is this:

1) Wearing a minus (except for a temporary reason) is a mistake.

2) Wearing the plus - is for the long-term. (Because of that -1/2 diopter per year - if you do not wear it.)

3) There are no "quick fixes" and there is no medical solution - at all.

4) The ODs will just tell you (about the -1/2 diopter per year) that is just your, "bad heredity", and you can do NOTHING about it.

5) The ODs do not even bother to help their own children, do do not ask them to help you.

This is "base line" data - for you to understand the true challenge of "just prevention."

I do not "nag" a person to wear the plus.  You must figure this out for yourself.

Pilots do this successfully - because the "pain" of losing their distant vision, is worse that the bother of wearing the plus correctly.



Hi Otis,
I think you are a little confused. Im doing: plus lense + eye exercises. I havent given up on eye excercises. What worries me though is the line:"But it would be extremely rare for you to succeed."
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 13, 2014, 08:53:53 AM
Hi Otis,
Thanks for the clarification. So the extra 10 minutes of active focus: do you think it will be highly effective to this process or like adding a grain of rice to a sack?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 13, 2014, 11:23:10 AM
Hi Musa,

It is obvious that most people believe in exercise.  As long as you monitor your Snellen and due course begin to exceed the 20/40 line (objectively), you will be doing very well.


Hi Otis,
Thanks for the clarification. So the extra 10 minutes of active focus: do you think it will be highly effective to this process or like adding a grain of rice to a sack?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 13, 2014, 12:31:22 PM
Hi Otis,
I'm not too keen on the active focus, i dont rely on it too much. Is it okay if i just focus on plus lens?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 13, 2014, 08:02:04 PM
Hi Musa,

I can only give you  my opinion, since I monitor my own Snellen (currently 20/20), and wear a +2.5 as I type this.  I know how hard it is to convince yourself that long-term wearing of a plus (for near) is for virtually everyone.

As an engineer, I rely on science and analysis - of existing studies.  They show the wisdom of being wise, and personally, making certain (after some time of wearing a plus) that you exceed the 20/40 line, and begin to read the 20/30 line.  No one can prescribe this policy. 

Prevention this way is totally personal.  But if you succeed, the cost is almost nothing - since you do  it yourself.

Pilots are successful (like Severson) because he got the idea, and long term wearing of the plus - did not daunt him. 

But that is what it takes - to make yourself successful.

What is hard to accept, and takes long-term study to accept, is the necessity of measuring your refractive status yourself, and "keeping up" the wearing of a plus through the school years.

That "long-term" issue - is for only you to judge - and decide.

Hi Otis,
I'm not too keen on the active focus, i dont rely on it too much. Is it okay if i just focus on plus lens?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 16, 2014, 08:36:24 AM
Hi Otis,
So you are 20/20 but still wear plus lenses- even after your eyes stabilize?
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 17, 2014, 12:25:24 PM
Hi Msua,

I asked you to post here - so you could read all the contradictory opinions (all honest and sincere) about prevention, while you can still read the 20/50 line at home.  I know that, because of your young age - prevention will be difficult for you, since you will have to "re-start" wearing the plus, when you again go below 20/40.  This is an education, never a guarantee.  I take true-prevention to be a "window of opportunity" for you, or at least you will have an education about this issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRZFvzNVTpY&list=UUo7v7iOfsapIH0o51RWIwgw

Yes, I personally check  my own Snellen - on a regular basis.  I recommend that everyone else do it also, as well as obtain $7 test minus lenses, to also confirm their refractive state - personally

My Snellen is actually "variable", from 20/25 to 20/15.  I also wear the plus (for near) to retain that level of vision, and to confirm a SLIGHT postive state ( I can read the 20/20 line THOUGH a +1/2 diopter lens).

So yes, my refraction is stabilized at +1/2 diopter, that is essential if I am going to retain, vision on the order of 20/20 to 20/15.

In fact, long-term preserving or keeping vision at better-than  20/40, is going to require that type of long-term wearing of a plus for near.

It is very difficult for most people to understand that necessity.  But that is my judgment of this difficult situation.


Hi Otis,
So you are 20/20 but still wear plus lenses- even after your eyes stabilize?
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 18, 2014, 08:32:54 AM
Hi Otis,
How long term are we talking about. I thought it was a couple of years most but im guessing you've been at this for longer. And also, if someone were to be below 20/60, is the plus prevention process unlikely to work for him.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 18, 2014, 08:56:51 AM
Hi Musa,

I did not know, until the research was completed, that long-term prevention, means educated comittent to wearing the plus.  The study I presented - makes that issue final.

The other issue, is that no OD has any interest in prevention, and will not even help their own child with prevention. 

I have been wearing a plus for some time, as an EXAMPLE of what is wise to do, for self-prevention.

The "optical analysis", (see my site) shows that for each 1/2 diopter you go down, you must "cut" the "plus lens " by that amount.

This makes it essential that you know this, and start prevention while you can still you a good strenth of a plus for ALL CLOSE WORK.

THIS IS NOT MEDICINE, AND PREVENTION AS I PRESENT IT - CAN NEVER BE PART OF MEDICINE.

Frankly, if a person is at 20/60, my assumption is that he will hate wearing the plus, and love the minus.  Or will think it is nuts to wear a plus, when the minus is so easy.

That is again, a matter of educated choice.

I am certain no one cares if you keep on going down.  I just tell you that you will, by -1/2 diopter per year.

It is up to  you ALONE to decide what you want to do about it.

If it were me - I would wear the plus, and exceed the 20/40 line, and continue to wear the plus though the college years.



Hi Otis,
How long term are we talking about. I thought it was a couple of years most but im guessing you've been at this for longer. And also, if someone were to be below 20/60, is the plus prevention process unlikely to work for him.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 20, 2014, 04:14:19 AM
Hi Otis,
So how long have you been wearing the plus?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 20, 2014, 04:39:30 AM
Subject:  How long have  you been wearing the plus and checking your Snellen and refractive state?

About three years.

Current status:

Visual Acuity: 20/20,   Refractive STATE:  +3/4 diopters.

Question:  Have I had an eye exam in those three years.

Yes, and a OD "tech", TRIED to prescribe a lens for me, but since I have previously objectively confirmed 20/20, I decline the attempted prescription.  I just do a better measurement job at home - since I have the equipment and personal resolve to do it.

After all, *me* protecting *my* distant vision is my goal.   It is not the objective of an optometrist.  Prevention is not a medical process, and a medical person simply can not help me use a plus lens on myself.  I never ask them for any help.

Most people simply can not, "figure out" why it is intelligent to begin wearing a plus in high school.  The OD will recommend it perhaps, but unless the person is strongly educated to do it  - nothing is accomplished.  At least this OD made the wise recommendation.  Will the young woman wear the plus?  I do not know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWjnNM0VYM4

I stated that, with 20/50 (about self-measured, -1.25 diopters) and in high school, your refraction will go down by -1/2 diopter per year.  It is certain that it will NOT GET BETTER, if you choose to do nothing about it.

If I were wise about preserving my vision for life -- though four years in college -- I would be asking, how the hell did you come up with that prediction?

Let me add this commentary, about the fact that we create negative status - for our natural eyes - because of the long-term near work required of us.

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/1-ingredient-improving-eyesight-positive-stimulus-ways-get/

One thing is certain - prevention is truly difficult - and depends on qualities of the person himself.  Prevention will never be supplied by an OD in his office.   He simply can not do it.


Hi Otis,
So how long have you been wearing the plus?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 20, 2014, 11:45:05 AM
Hi Otis,
Why after 3 years do you still need the plus even at 20/20. What if you become long sighted?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on September 25, 2014, 04:55:23 PM
Hi Musa,

I will say this - please define, "long sighted" so we understand what you mean.

You claim I have a "risk" to become, "long-sighted".  I say that is NOT THE CASE.

I am typing and reading this with NO LENS ON.  How am I "long-sighted"?  Please explain.

I use the plus to PREVENT my eyes from "going down".  It is like wearing ear-muffs to prevent deafness.  If I am working in a loud environment that creates deafness - I would be a damn fool to NOT wear ear muffs.

But then, I have 20/20 vision, and you do not.

I protect my distant vision, and you will not.

You will stay at 20/50, and I will stay at 20/20 - because I am willing to do what is necessary - and you are not.

I understand WHY it is necessary - and you do not.

I wish you all luck in what ever recovery method you choose.  I just doubt that you will succeed.

But prove me wrong.  Get a Snellen. Confirm 20/50, and measure your refractive state yourself.

Then get back to 20/20.  It is not my responsibility to do that.


Hi Otis,
Why after 3 years do you still need the plus even at 20/20. What if you become long sighted?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on September 26, 2014, 01:38:13 PM
Hi Otis,
You say that you doubt I will succeed. But I am measuring my eyesight on the snellen while also using +2 lens for close work.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on October 08, 2014, 12:35:24 PM
Hi Musa,

Subject:  Is prevention possible for you.  I can only dream that you will make yourself successful.

I do not know you.  I do not know what you want.  I do not know what committements you can bring to the table.

But I do not doubt your intelligence.

But it is like a person on the threshold of making himself obese.  I know high IQ people who are obese.  It is not a matter of there intelligence, it is a matter of what I call, "body intelligence".

This is where you look at yourself, and decide to look at your own Snellen, objectively, and at the -1/2 diopter rate you will go down if you choose to NOT wear the plus for all close work during your future school years.

Whether, you have this type of motivation - I do not know - and will never know.

If you entering into an engineering college - I think you would understand the reasons.

But it is all YOU.  More power to you.

If you go though an electrical engineering college - you could indeed write a paper about your success. 


Hi Otis,
You say that you doubt I will succeed. But I am measuring my eyesight on the snellen while also using +2 lens for close work.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on October 09, 2014, 10:50:59 AM
Hi Otis,
If even after i stop growing (which is soon) my eyes do not return to full 20/20 vision, can I still carry on the process, even if I have stopped growing?
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on October 09, 2014, 11:14:43 AM
Hi Musa,

I am not certain what question you are asking about. Here is the logic that spells out WHY it is necessary to continue to wear  a plus for the next six years.

The remarks an understanding of Dr. Raphaelson, (who insisted his own children wear the plus), convinced me that his approach was very wise).  See my discussion about him and what he accomplished.  (Below).

The reality is that, when kids do no close work (at all) their refractive state is slightly positive and they have excellent vision.

Only when we do this long-term close work (which today, we can not avoid) does our refraction slowly change in a negative direction.

This is NOT a "failure process", in my opinion, but in broad perspective, the natural eye responding to "long-term near" as a natural process.

The fact you want to be fully aware of, is that virtually all persons who develop a SLIGHT negative status (which for you is a self-measured -1 diopter), have vision that continues to go down by -1/2 diopter per each, for year you are in school and college. 

Thus if you do six more years in high school, college and grad school, you can expect your negative refraction to increass by -3 diopters.  This means that when you get out of Grand School, you will be "negative" by -4 diopters.

If you allow your refraction to get that low, you can not get out of it.  Wearing the plus in a wise manner, NOW, is what is required - however difficult it may be for you to persuade yourself to take on that personal responsibility. 

This is indeed a difficult choice for you to make.  It is indeed a fork on the road of your life.  Make the right choice, and you can keep your vision at better-than 20/40, and probably the range of 20/30 to 20/20 - for the next six years.

Choose to do nothing at all, and that -1/2 diopter is what will happen to your distant vision - for certain.

You do not believe me?  That is your right.

Here is a statement about these issues by Dr. Raphaelson, who realized he could only help his own children with true-prevention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElQxx1p51gw&list=UUo7v7iOfsapIH0o51RWIwgw

The public, tragically, only understands the minus lens, and is indeed hostile to any wearing of a plus for prevention, while you still can read the 20/40 line.

That is what we should learn from him.



Hi Otis,
If even after i stop growing (which is soon) my eyes do not return to full 20/20 vision, can I still carry on the process, even if I have stopped growing?
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on October 10, 2014, 12:47:13 PM
Hi Otis,
For the past 2 months I have been wearing the +2 lenses for about 60% of close work but NO use of minus lenses. Do you expect any sort of improvement by the end of, lets say 3 months?
Regards

P.S. Please do not take any offence from my questions no matter how critical they may seem. I respect and what you are doing and hope there are more people like you.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on October 10, 2014, 04:50:40 PM
Hi Musa,

Here is my commentary about an optometrist, who insisted his own children wear the plus - at the threshold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRZFvzNVTpY&list=UUo7v7iOfsapIH0o51RWIwgw

Thanks for your response.  I have seen many claims - some of which I have been able to verify.

I think getting your eyes to change their refractive status - is indeed a very slow process.  There are too many people who think they must get "instant results".  I do have some suggestions.

1)  If you have no yet done so, set up a Snellen chart, at 20 feet.  (You can make a 10 foot Snellen if you like.)  Spend some time just monitoring it, to form an average judgment of the line you read 50 percent of the characters.  This is indeed your base line, since you are the only person interest in your results.

2) I accept reading the 20/30, to be very reasonable, as an early success.  If you see that type of objective improvement, then that should continue to wear the plus.  I know your friend who see you, will ask questions.  If they do ask, send them to my site, and remember THEY will be the ones to go down by that -1/2 diopter per year.

3) I provided this "general idea" to my nephew, when he was 14 years old.  I think he was about 20/40 at the time.  From my book, you know he took preventing that -1/2 diopter per year, very seriously.  Today, he is 20/20, and continues to wear the plus, if he sees, on his Snellen, that he as started down again - due to the close work he is required to do.

Otis> I appreciate your questions.  This is indeed all new to you.  It takes a long time to accept the need to wear the plus, though the school years. 

Otis> I think you have read a lot of the commentary by individuals posting here.  You must form you judgment of them, myself, and yourself.

Otis> I obviously think that, while difficult, wearing the plus for near is very wise.  If you exceed the 20/40 line, you can stop wearing the minus lens, which would be a major goal, and wise objective.

Otis> If you reach that point, then you can increase the power of the plus to +2.5, and continue wearing it.

Otis> I know that people do not "like wearing glasses", and I hate the minus lens.  But wearing a plus for near, frees your distant vision, and prevents you from becoming DEPENDENT on the minus lens - which is the reason wearing the plus is so essential.

Otis> Just keep on wearing the plus, and wait for your Snellen to slowly clear to 20/40.  It is worth it.

Hi Otis,
For the past 2 months I have been wearing the +2 lenses for about 60% of close work but NO use of minus lenses. Do you expect any sort of improvement by the end of, lets say 3 months?
Regards

P.S. Please do not take any offence from my questions no matter how critical they may seem. I respect and what you are doing and hope there are more people like you.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on October 11, 2014, 06:47:11 AM
Hi Musa,

Subject: Why self-checking a "bright Snellen" is so important.

Item: This looks like your current status.  Notice that a "dim" Snellen was used.  Please put a bright light on it.

Item:  There is no need to maintain 20/20, with a minus lens,  If it were me, and I passed the 20/40 line, objectively, I would not be wearing any minus lens.

Item: But I would be wearing a plus for any close work, that is longer than two minutes. 

Item: The "fastest" recovery, is indeed very slow.  But, avoiding the minus, in a reasonable way, is a big step in the right direction.  In this status, you will need a $7, -1.0 diopter to drive a car at night. 

Item: Please note that this man sees "varible" Snellen, that is totally normal.  This is why you must personally read a bright Snellen yourself.  No OD can do this for you.

+++++

Hi Dr. Alex,

My snellen results and centimeter readings have come in late due to my work. I have been noticing a few positive changes in my sight from the time I started almost 2 weeks now. Will explain after results. I also got reduced astigmatism glasses as advised. my previous prescription was L: Sph – 1 Cyl – 1, R: Sph -1.25 Cyl – 0.50. Current is L: Sph – 1 Cyl – 0.50, R: Sph -1.25 Cyl – 0.25 and I am able to read the 20/20 and a bit of 20/15 line outside and indoor I can see the 20/25 but 20/20 is not very clear.

Centimeter readings: R- 66cm, L- 75cm indoors lighting not so good

Snellen Results

Day 1 morning: Indoors no glasses L: 20/50, R 20/70 poor lighting Both: 20/50
Outdoor no glasses: L: 20/40, R 20/50 Both: 20/40

Day 2 : Indoors no glasses L: 20/50, R 20/70 poor lighting Both: 20/50
Outdoor no glasses: L: 20/30, R 20/40 Both: 20/30

Day 3 : Indoors no glasses L: 20/50, R 20/70 poor lighting Both: 20/50
Outdoor no glasses: L: 20/25, R 20/40 Both: 20/25

What I have discovered is that when I look at the snellen chart 3m away outdoors and blink I am able to read part of the 20/20 line but if I blink again I lose focus/clarity for a bit until I blink again and stare at the chart. If I close my eyes for 5 seconds then open them outdoors the snellen chart sometimes becomes clear and I can read the 20/15 line and below but this only lasts for 3-4 seconds then back to 20/30 -20/25. How can I maintain this effect? Is this active focus as I blink? This weekend I was able to ride my bike for the peripheral exercise and exposure to UV without glasses which I have not done in more that two years and I am enjoying the view though not yet very clear. Please advise on near focus prescription for me considering my centimeter readings as currently I don’t use glasses for near work instead I position myself such that I get access to some blur on my screen or book. Plus I am trying to get a lot of outdoor exposure.

Regards,

Simeon

+++++

Learning from others - is crucial to your success.  I hope this man stops wearing a minus lens (with due common sense).

It would be very wise for this person to begin wearing a +2.0 diopter for all close work.  Reading at 20 inches would be very clear for him at that distance.

This is Dr. Alex's site - so I do not comment on it.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on October 14, 2014, 09:08:42 AM
Hi Otis,
Is it okay if i check my Snellen weekly? Not daily.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on October 14, 2014, 11:40:17 AM
Hi Musa,

Yes!

The goal is for you to have the judgment that your vision is getting objectively better.  For me, the goal would be to eventually be able to read almost all the letters on the 20/40 line.  This type of improvement is indeed slow - but steady.

There are people who will be wearing the plus as you are doing it - and see no change for several months.  Then, one day, you will begin to objectively verify "jumps", where you can read most of the letters on the 20/30 and 20/25 line.  That is always the best indication that your systematic reading with the plus - is having the desired result.

Hi Otis,
Is it okay if i check my Snellen weekly? Not daily.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on October 19, 2014, 07:41:21 AM
Hi Otis,
Sorry i wasnt clear on your answer. So it IS okay to check it weekly?
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on October 28, 2014, 11:28:34 AM
Hi Otis,
How do i know whether +2 is a suitable lens for me not +1.5. Is there a test i can do to make sure im using one that i would prefer.
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on November 01, 2014, 11:06:39 AM
Hi Otis,
I have been in this process for 3 months now and I seem to have not made any improvements (stayed at 20/50). What does this mean?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: OtisBrown on November 01, 2014, 11:33:25 AM
Hi Musa,

I am glad you made the effort.  I know that with some people, "the plus" is successful. For others, no effect, as you state it. 

Thanks for making the effort.

Hi Otis,
I have been in this process for 3 months now and I seem to have not made any improvements (stayed at 20/50). What does this mean?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on November 02, 2014, 06:17:14 AM
Hi Otis,
What do I do now? I feel like I should at least continue until the New Year just in case if I do see any change. What do you think? Is this result after 3 months the answer for me to give up on the process or is there still hope for me?
Regards
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: caimanjosh on November 06, 2014, 08:16:22 AM
One thing I think should be noted is that just using plus lenses for close work, in and of itself, isn't necessarily enough to stimulate improvement.  You need to active "push print" in order to start getting results (i.e. eyesight improvement).  By that, I mean you'd need to move your face as far back from the text as you can (while wearing the plus lenses), and then try and focus and make the text become as clear as possible.  If you succeed, after a few seconds, try moving back further.  If it goes out of focus, move closer, allow your eyes to focus, then repeat.

I recall when I first started this process a year and a half ago, I was just wearing plus lenses for close work, but I didn't seem to be making any improvement for the first month or so.  But then I began to actively "push print" as described above, and within just a few days, I noticed marked improvement.  Give that a try and see if it helps, if you haven't been doing it that way. 

Just wearing the plus lenses, and not really challenging your eyes to focus from as far as possible, is probably good for prevention, but insufficient for active rehab, IMHO. 
Title: Re: Questions by Musa
Post by: musafighter2 on November 17, 2014, 12:26:28 PM
Should i continue wearing the plus if i am watching a movie on my laptop? (with no subs)