Getting Stronger: Discussion Forum

Discussion Topics => Rehabilitation => Topic started by: OtisBrown on March 03, 2016, 09:58:06 AM

Title: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 03, 2016, 09:58:06 AM
Glasses are expensive.  Jake proposes to end myopia, and reduce the cost of lenses.
 
http://endmyopia.org/expensive-glasses-the-shocking-scale-of-the-lens-ripoff/

The minus, worn all the time is not a "good thing", and produces more myopia,
not less myopia.
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 17, 2016, 11:12:24 AM
Hi,

Glasses aren't that expensive and myopes can't really do without them.
Because of close work with glasses on, my myopia became worse, but after one day of wearing a plus lense (before knowing the full method) my old glasses were as new. -4 & -3.75 eyes and +2, couldn't see a thing :)

What I think is a ripoff is charging $7500 for 3 consults with a 'guru', no results guaranteed.
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 17, 2016, 01:20:01 PM
Hi Wheelie,

I personally make no claims of success.  I discourage a person from believing you can get out of anything more than a mild prescription.

People get "down to", -4, to -9 diopters, BECAUSE they would REJECT wise wearing of a plus, when they could still read the 20/40 line (self-measured
-1.0 diopter).

As far as the costs (to me) to protect my distant vision by wearing a plus, for all close work?

The cost is nothing.

Enjoy,


Hi,

Glasses aren't that expensive and myopes can't really do without them.
Because of close work with glasses on, my myopia became worse, but after one day of wearing a plus lense (before knowing the full method) my old glasses were as new. -4 & -3.75 eyes and +2, couldn't see a thing :)

What I think is a ripoff is charging $7500 for 3 consults with a 'guru', no results guaranteed.
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 17, 2016, 03:06:13 PM
Hi Otis,

Do you know what the 60 sessions of endmyopia consist of? Jake says it's totally different from gettingstronger and DeAngelis. $1200 is too much to find out. :)
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 17, 2016, 03:20:43 PM
Hi Wheelie,

$2,500 for one consultation.  Where did you come up with that number??

The choice to spend money - is always up to the person himself.

Typical OD exam and glasses normally costs $150 for the exam, and $150 for glasses, for the total of $300.

But if you like special glasses - it can get up to $500.

Personally, I just check my own Snellen, use my own trial lens set, and order my own glasses from Zenniopitcal for about $10.00

That saves me $300 -$10 = $290.00

I always use a pinhole lens, on my Snellen to look for a medical condition. 

What Jake states is true.  The information is indeed free - you can take it or leave it. 

Enjoy,


Hi Otis,

Do you know what the 60 sessions of endmyopia consist of? Jake says it's totally different from gettingstronger and DeAngelis. $1200 is too much to find out. :)
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 18, 2016, 06:34:01 AM
I looked at zennioptical before for the $10 glasses, but I couldn't find them, but now I see it, it's only $6.95 for 1.50  glasses. I bought glasses from eBay for $1.50, but these are inferior quality with a very yellow tint, it also arrived broken :) .

I have -4.5, for close work what I need should be calculated from the distance,  on the blur line, right? Like for 1 meter distance I need -3.5.
I don't know what I should get for far distance, what do you recommend?  I don't have a snellen.

$7500 stated here
http://www.jakesteiner.com/consults/
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 18, 2016, 06:38:02 AM
Hi Wheelie,

From the posts here, I find HONEST -4.5 diopter people, that probably can  not get results.  Then I encounter people with a -4.5 diopter, who are probably over-prescribed - by quite a bit.  But I never know.

That is why  I it is necessary to down-load a Snellen - and check yourself.

A -4.5 means you can read at 10 inches - and blurry beyond that point.




I looked at zennioptical before for the $10 glasses, but I couldn't find them, but now I see it, it's only $6.95 for 1.50  glasses. I bought glasses from eBay for $1.50, but these are inferior quality with a very yellow tint, it also arrived broken :) .

I have -4.5, for close work what I need should be calculated from the distance,  on the blur line, right? Like for 1 meter distance I need -3.5.
I don't know what I should get for far distance, what do you recommend?  I don't have a snellen.

$7500 stated here
http://www.jakesteiner.com/consults/
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 18, 2016, 06:45:40 AM
I forgot to ask: should I add the cilinder to the glasses from zennioptical, or isn't it necessary?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 18, 2016, 07:20:27 AM
Hi,

Wh> I have -4.5, for close work what I need should be calculated from the distance,  on the blur line, right?

Otis>I do not understand - you have a -4.5 for close work?  Do you need a lens that strong for all close work.  Did your OD tell you
to wear a strong minus for close work?

Otis> A distance of 50 cm, is a power of 2 diopters.  Thus, if you have a -4.5 to give you 20/20, or even 20/15, and 20/10 vision, you should be
able to reduce that by about 2 diopters, or use a -2.5 diopter for reading.  Does this make sense to you - with all due respect.


Wh>  Like for 1 meter distance I need -3.5.
I don't know what I should get for far distance, what do you recommend?  I don't have a snellen.

Otis> If you do not have a Snellen - you are wasting the time of both of us.



I forgot to ask: should I add the cilinder to the glasses from zennioptical, or isn't it necessary?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 18, 2016, 07:32:56 AM
Yeah,  I understand, thanks.

Are there snellen charts out there for smaller distances, 10ft (3m) instead of 20ft?

Are astigmatism correction  necessary?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 18, 2016, 09:27:49 AM
Hi Wheelie,
Let us  be brutally honest with you.  At -4.5 diopters, I doubt that you can achieve any result.  Your vision was permanently lost, when you were
prescribed and wore, that FIRST strong minus lens all the time (when you could still read the 20/40 line).   

Now, it is simply do late - to do anything about it.

To answer your question:  Here is a how to make a Snellen for 10 feet use.

Download this chart:

https://myopiafree.wordpress.com/eye-chart/

Then double the number on the line, i.e., the 20/20 line becomes 20/40, if you read it at 10 feet.

Here is an Electronic Snellen:  Just press "Display" several times to get 20/60 lettters.

http://www.smbs.buffalo.edu/oph/ped/IVAC/IVAC.html

Then select "10  feet" to read at 10 feet.

Very easy to use.

Your question on astigmatism: 

If less that 1.5 diopters, I simply divide this number by 2, and add it to my Spherical measurement.

For example

-1 Sph.,  -1 Astig @ 60 degrees.

Converted - becomes

-1 -0.5 = -1.5 spherical equivalent.

Enjoy,


Yeah,  I understand, thanks.

Are there snellen charts out there for smaller distances, 10ft (3m) instead of 20ft?

Are astigmatism correction  necessary?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 18, 2016, 10:33:26 AM
Thanks going to print it when I have the chance.
If improvement at -4.5 is impossible, are the testimonials and forum posts of people who reduced their high myopia, on endmyopia org fake then?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 18, 2016, 12:25:21 PM
Hi Whe,

I did not say, "IMPOSSIBLE".  I said, very difficult.  The issues is this.  People, you, me, are VERY DIFFERENT.  What works for me, probably will NOT work for you.  This is why prescribing is impossible.  This is why I ask a person to look at his own Snellen, and check his refraction HIMSELF.  No OD is interested, and will deny ALL SUCCESS.  Here is what a co-worker Dennis did - totally "on his own".  I absolutely did not expect this result.

AN ENGINEER'S UNEXPECTED SUCCESS

Perhaps the most surprising and encouraging result to be achieved was accomplished by accident. Because of my long-term experience with the experimental data, I knew that recovery -- on the average -- would be slow. Anyone who attempts to use the plus lens wants to succeed. It makes sense to help people who have gotten into about 20/80. Any improvement will get you to 20/50, which passes the FAA 3rd class flying license. Recovery, if you are worse than 20/100, is difficult but possible. To present all the facts including surprising results, I asked Dennis to write a letter describing his efforts and ultimate result.

VISION RESTORATION: THE EFFECT THAT A POSITIVE LENS HAD ON MY DISTANT VISION

Dennis Romich, July 21, 1992

My distance vision had been poor for many years. I had overheard Otis Brown discussing nearsightedness, and his suggested technique for restoring the myopic eye to normal. Without telling Otis, I decided to attempt to use the plus lens, and see what would happen, since the approach seemed reasonable and much safer than any other method.

I obtained a plus lens at a local store without a prescription. The lens was a +1.5 diopter lens and is commonly sold as a reading glass for people who have lost their near vision.

I had become nearsighted in grade school and was prescribed minus lenses which I dutifully wore all day long. As the years went by, my vision worsened, and the Doctor would prescribe stronger minus lens. My distance vision without prescription lenses was very bad through high school, college, and graduate school. The last professional check (Ophthalmologist) showed that my prescription was -4.5 diopters (Right eye) and -4.25 diopters (Left eye). This is approximately 20/320 vision using the Snellen eye chart. In some states, I would be classed as legally blind without my glasses.

As I wore the plus-lens and did not wear the minus lens, I noticed that my distance vision began to clear. After several weeks, I purchased Otis' book, and checked my eyes against the eye chart. They were 20/30, which means I will pass the standard driver's license criteria of 20/40 or better without prescription lenses.

Otis was surprised at this effect of the plus lens. He stated that most individuals could return their vision from 20/70 to 20/20, but he felt that returning vision from 20/320 to 20/30 was hard to believe. Since I have done it successfully, I have no doubt that other individuals who have a similar problem could obtain similar results using Otis' recommended method of vision restoration.

I am a registered professional engineer, and have a Master's degree in both Engineering and Business Administration.

+++++++++++++++

I wish you luck, with what ever choice you make.

Enjoy !




Thanks going to print it when I have the chance.
If improvement at -4.5 is impossible, are the testimonials and forum posts of people who reduced their high myopia, on endmyopia org fake then?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 18, 2016, 12:50:16 PM
You said you doubt any results can be achieved at -4.5, I thought you meant impossible.
But he wore plus lenses at -4.5 / -4.25? Isn't that against the method described on gettingstronger and DeAngelis'?
I have done this too and my vision seemed to have  improved too.
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 18, 2016, 04:02:01 PM
Hi Whe,

I am not part of "Getting Stronger", nor am I part of "DeAngellis".  How do you jump to that conclusion?

What i report is pure facts - and then you can judge these issues yourself.

1) I have a copy of Denis' prescription.
2) I have a copy of Denis' driver license, also (AFTER he went and passed their OBJECTIVE test. )

ISSUES:

Now, with those facts, you can reach several conclusions:

1) I am lying.
2) Denis is lying
3) There was a gross incompetent measurement, made by the OD.
4) This was a miracle - that was a "once in blue moon" event.
5) It NEVER HAPPENED, because all ODs say it will never happen.

It is all a matter of your own personal judgment - isn't it?

I will not take is beyond this point.  Now please speculate about your judgment.

Over-prescribed?  Check yourself - because you can never trust the OD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZekQzSS0CE

Dennis' experience, was that he was OVER-PRESCRIBED - that it always true from an OD.




You said you doubt any results can be achieved at -4.5, I thought you meant impossible.
But he wore plus lenses at -4.5 / -4.25? Isn't that against the method described on gettingstronger and DeAngelis'?
I have done this too and my vision seemed to have  improved too.
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 18, 2016, 05:05:57 PM
No, you don't understand, I misinterpreted what you said as impossible, you meant it's hard to get results at -4.5..

Both methods (pvs and gettingstronger)  describe using a plus lense only if one has low myopia, to create the point of blur at not too big a distance, but when I (and the guy in your text)  use plus lens  at -4.5, the focal point is around 15cm. What's the idea behind using a plus at these diopter levels?  The eye won't learn to autofocus when everything is too blurry.
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 18, 2016, 05:20:19 PM
Hi Whee,

You do not understand.  When you put a minus lens all all NATURAL EYES, this is what always happens - in pure science.

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wildsoet/images/neg_lens_induce_myopia.swf

Do you dispute this fact - or do you wish to IGNORE IT ??

The OD HOPES you never understand how THEY screwed up your eyes - now that it is too late to do anything about it.

The issue is to NEVER start wearing a strong minus, lens (because of this proven effect), BEFORE you go below -1 diopter.

I think pure science, (as per above) should be presented to you ,  in a very strong way, BEFORE you are given a minus over-prescribed by
-1 to -2 diopters.

The OD feels that you are too stupid to understand this choice.

Now you are screwed permanently by this OD, BECAUSE YOU WERE GIVEN NO CHOICE, when you could have gotten out of 20/40 (self-measured -1 diopter).

Sorry - I was not the one who put you in  a very strong minus lens.

The OD who did this to you - is to blame.

That is all.



No, you don't understand, I misinterpreted what you said as impossible, you meant it's hard to get results at -4.5..

Both methods (pvs and gettingstronger)  describe using a plus lense only if one has low myopia, to create the point of blur at not too big a distance, but when I (and the guy in your text)  use plus lens  at -4.5, the focal point is around 15cm. What's the idea behind using a plus at these diopter levels?  The eye won't learn to autofocus when everything is too blurry.
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 18, 2016, 05:41:00 PM
Actually I'm to blame myself, because I stared too much to screens and books with minus glasses on, didn't know better.

Why does the plus lens improve vision for myopes? It did for me a bit when I worn it for a day (+2 I believe) but why?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 18, 2016, 06:38:45 PM
Hi Whee,

Actually, the FIRST OD, who saw you at 20/40 (self-measured -1 diopter) screwed your vision up, permanently.  I will explain why in due course.

I advocate that ALL ODS who deal with you professionally, had you a statement:

1)  You have a right to be informed of the second-opinion, that any wearing of a minus lens - will make your distant vision permanently worse.

2) To be effective, at 20/40, you must not wear a minus lens at all (assuming in school, and 20/40 is good enough.)

3) You will wear a strong plus FOR ALL CLOSE WORK, as long as you are in school.  You will always be responsible to objectively
exceed the 20/40 line (and much better) under YOUR control.

4) If you do not do this, or are LAZY about this, or are not concerned, your refraction will go down at a steady rate of
-1/2 diopter .... for each year in school. 

5)  It is all up to you.  The OD can suggest this as totally necessary (as pure science), but you better convince yourself of pure
science, if you are going to ever be successful.

6) My objection?  No OD will ever tell you this.  But it is like Dennis.  I just present objective facts, and they you
choose what you want to do about it.

Then next thing you will tell me is this.  No child will wear a plus for the long term - to save their vision though the school years.

Here is Nate, a medical doctor - who INSISTS that HIS child wear the plus with the intelligence required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lxDeSBhyjY

Enjoy,



Actually I'm to blame myself, because I stared too much to screens and books with minus glasses on, didn't know better.

Why does the plus lens improve vision for myopes? It did for me a bit when I worn it for a day (+2 I believe) but why?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 19, 2016, 05:20:49 AM
I'm aware of the harm of the minus lens, but it is only harmful when over prescribed and when it is worn for close work.
But never mindmind that.

Why does the plus lens improve vision? I tried to ask that a couple of times, but you don't answer it :)
Someone said you advocate that newborn babies should  instantly wear the plus lens, this is incorrect right?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 19, 2016, 07:18:08 AM
Hi Whee,

The minus lens is ALWAYS HARMFUL.   It is always over-prescribed.  To avoid wearing it, (at 20/40), when you are prescribed a -2.25 diotper - you MUST NOT WEAR IT - EVER.

So how do you avoid wearing it?  Well, you objectively read the 20/40 (at home, on your bright Snellen). Then you understand how important it is to START wearing a strong plus, (because you are wise about that issue). You do this, because you never want get into -4 diopters - EVER.

Then you teach yourself some basic, "measurement optometry", by obtaining your OWN test lenses, of -1/2 and -1 diopter (for about $10.

Then you read the PROOF, that,  if in high school, entering college, YOUR REFRACTION WILL GO DOWN AT -1/2 DIOPTER PER YEAR - if you choose to LAUGH at wearing the plus, when at 20/40.

Let me repeat. The plus only has the possibility, IF the person is willing to accept the imperative of looking at pure science himself. 

Then he must accept a reasonable objective standard. That he always personally EXCEEDS the  20/40 line, and passes the only real objective test (go pass the DMV test.)

Then the  truly hard part  You must be smart enough to do this though four years of college.

To difficult for you?

Well then no one can help you.

I am sorry you seem to want a "cure" or "help" when you are at -4 diopters.  Sorry - you are in too deep to be helped.  If I said
anything else - you would say I was lying - to sell you on the concept of "just prevention".

I am NOT going to lie to you.

First you complain about Jake "lying to you" claiming you can get out of -4 diopters. Then you complain about him, "charging you money".

Then you complain when I say you must look at a Snellen.  They you argue with me, when I say that the eye is VERY VERY slow to
respond to the plus, when you can still read the 20/40 line - and can do prevention, only at that point.

Sorry, much as Dennis - I do not lie to you to "sell you" anything at all.




I'm aware of the harm of the minus lens, but it is only harmful when over prescribed and when it is worn for close work.
But never mindmind that.

Why does the plus lens improve vision? I tried to ask that a couple of times, but you don't answer it :)
Someone said you advocate that newborn babies should  instantly wear the plus lens, this is incorrect right?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 19, 2016, 07:51:01 AM
It isn't over prescribed if the focal point is still in front of the retina, which causes axial shortening according to science. Undercorrection Jake, Todd and David call it.

I asked another question about the plus lens, but you only answer with how bad minus is. Everyone in here is already aware of that, because they've read Todd's articles.
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 19, 2016, 07:52:34 AM

Good,

Now look at a Snellen, and get back to normal.


It isn't over prescribed if the focal point is still in front of the retina, which causes axial shortening according to science. Undercorrection Jake, Todd and David call it.

I asked another question about the plus lens, but you only answer with how bad minus is. Everyone in here is already aware of that, because they've read Todd's articles.
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 19, 2016, 07:57:40 AM

Good,

Now look at a Snellen, and get back to normal.


It isn't over prescribed if the focal point is still in front of the retina, which causes axial shortening according to science. Undercorrection Jake, Todd and David call it.



I asked another question about the plus lens, but you only answer with how bad minus is. Everyone in here is already aware of that, because they've read Todd's articles.
I apologize, you did answer my question, didn't read your full post. But what's the science behind the plus lens clearing vision? Jake supposedly was a -4 himself. And charging $1200 for 60 pre-written 'sessions' is 'charging too much money', money is his least favorite subject according to his words lol. 
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 19, 2016, 08:24:40 AM
Is it true you said that newborn babies need to wear + immediately?

They also say + lenses cause cataract, is there any truth in this?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 19, 2016, 09:59:49 AM
Hi Whee,

You are correct, based on  a bad theory of 1865, (Helmholtz).  Yes, children have positive status, and for that reason
SHOULD be prescribed a strong plus.  Here is the objective data, for your interest.

http://myopiafree.i-see.org/FundEye.html

Thus these primates should have been prescribed a +4 diopters lens, because they have a refractive ERROR of +4 diopters.

Does that make sense to you?  Why not ask your current OD about this issue?

Here an optometrist (who you totally trust) speaks about "Ending Myopia" !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbLBXGET0aM

You complain about Jake's prices.  What do you think an OD charges for Ortho-K  "End Myopia".

It is about $ 1,500 per year.

And that is for each year you are myopic.  So after 10 years you pay him $ 15,000.

And you are still myopic.  Cost/Benefit Ration?

How effective is that treatment - Whellie.  Perhaps you should do that Ortho-K .

Is it true you said that newborn babies need to wear + immediately?

They also say + lenses cause cataract, is there any truth in this?
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 19, 2016, 10:43:32 AM
I don't have an od or optometrist, never been to an od.  I still see perfectly fine with my glasses from 2011,  no -0.50 increase per year like everyone claims, and I did do lots of close work with glasses on.

o-k isn't  a $1500 60 part pre-written newsletter. pvs &  hormesis are free and exactly the same method, except for distance pulling/pushing./focusing
 
No baby or toddler should wear +, doesn't matter what their error is, because most have perfect eyesight when they're older, the body adapts itself. Except for pseudo myopia a + for  close work could  help them.

What's the science behind the + lens according to you? Jake (&  DeAngelis)  say it's just a buzzword, and should  actively be used to create the blur horizon when the myopia is too low. http://endmyopia.org/reader-questions-plus-lens-therapy/

 
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 19, 2016, 11:56:49 AM
Hi Wheelie,

Thank you for your expert opinion.

Now you can proceed to restore your eyes to naked-eye 20/20.

You do not need any of us - any more.

Best,



I don't have an od or optometrist, never been to an od.  I still see perfectly fine with my glasses from 2011,  no -0.50 increase per year like everyone claims, and I did do lots of close work with glasses on.

o-k isn't  a $1500 60 part pre-written newsletter. pvs &  hormesis are free and exactly the same method, except for distance pulling/pushing./focusing
 
No baby or toddler should wear +, doesn't matter what their error is, because most have perfect eyesight when they're older, the body adapts itself. Except for pseudo myopia a + for  close work could  help them.

What's the science behind the + lens according to you? Jake (&  DeAngelis)  say it's just a buzzword, and should  actively be used to create the blur horizon when the myopia is too low. http://endmyopia.org/reader-questions-plus-lens-therapy/
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 19, 2016, 12:08:25 PM
No expert opinion, just my view on what does and doesn't seem logical to me.

You provide info on avoidance  afaik (that's the purpose of your book, right?) , I'm looking into  reversal , and Todd and DeAngelis provide everything one needs, and some good scattered info on endmyopia.

It's all about near and far blur horizon, active facussing and light quality to reverse myopia as far as I've become aware from the info. .
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 19, 2016, 12:34:57 PM
Hi Whee,

Thanks for the complement on my book:

https://myopiafree.wordpress.com/book/

By now you know I do not care about money - as such.  The book suggest that it would be very wise for
a pilot, who can still read the 20/40 line (entering a four year college), self-measured -1 diopter, take
"just prevention" very seriously.

But I know each person will "fall by the wayside", when he truly realizes that long-term plus lens wear is required.

But each of us has, "free will" so I just present objective scientific facts (that limits prevention to 20/40),
and allow the person to choose a course of action - that best fits his own professional needs.

I would point out, that this method requires scientific expertise - IN THE MIND OF THE PERSON HIMSELF.

I would also emphasize how difficult it is to do it.  I spell it out - that this method costs nothing in terms of money.

You just have to be smart enough to "figure it out" for yourself.

Enjoy your free will, and educated choice.

Best,



No expert opinion, just my view on what does and doesn't seem logical to me.

You provide info on avoidance  afaik (that's the purpose of your book, right?) , I'm looking into  reversal , and Todd and DeAngelis provide everything one needs, and some good scattered info on endmyopia.

It's all about near and far blur horizon, active facussing and light quality to reverse myopia as far as I've become aware from the info. .
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Alex_Myopic on March 22, 2016, 02:09:04 AM
"And charging $1200 for 60 pre-written 'sessions' is 'charging too much money', money is his least favorite subject according to his words lol.  "

Where did you find that Wheelie? As far as I can remember even I was thinking to pay to take the lessons when I was in my longest plateau. It was only about 150 dollars. The extended pro-program of about 60 sessions was about 300 dollars and added to that if someone wanted one on one contact with Dr Alex (some sessions) for his personal coaching then it was about 1000 dollars.

You can get even video tutorials by Jake for free but if you think Jake "supposedly" got from -4D to 20/20 there is no point since he tells lies.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEhYxefHylpSgoiXDWcBrlA

Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 22, 2016, 02:41:28 PM
Hi,

The prices are on the payment page
https://endmyopia.org/payment-page/

$99 per month for 12 months


I absolutely don't think anyone lies, but jake is a businessman who tries to sell his know how in a guided manner. .
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: foie on March 23, 2016, 01:10:59 AM
Hi
I agree with Whelie, Jack steiner's program is too much expensive !!! He should teach us, like Todd Becker ,how he got -5D to 20/20 !!!! Yes, Jake is a buisnessman who try to '' make new contracts '' with his free topic and the sucess stories ( trues or falses..... ) !!! Who can pay 100 $ by month for a simple '' habits program'' ????? I CAN' T !!!!!


Sorry for my anger, Jack should share knowledge ...

Have a good day
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 23, 2016, 07:05:09 AM
Jake  calls Otis' method crackpottery:
Then there's the new bit of crackpottery that is "plus lens therapy".  People's imagination is sometimes equally stunning and lacking, all at the same time.  Let's find a quick fix for everything!  This one too, in video form on our Youtube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4k30dbjSc0
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 23, 2016, 08:14:03 AM
Hi Wheelie,

I have been called all kinds of "names".  That is OK.  It is the visual welfare of the person that is important to me.

It is true that Jake is, "all over the map", and in fact,  self-contradicts himself.  But he posts this remark about a
medical doctor INSISTING that his own child wear a plus for all close work:

Otis, and Jake>  Update about Nate and child, 3/18/16.  The child was -1.25 diopters (20/60).  After wearing a +2.25 doipter for ALL CLOSE WORK, the child is at 20/25 (for a child, virtually perfect.)  Please note: The eye goes down at a rate of -1/2 diopter per year, for EACH YEAR IN SCHOOL (Dr. Young plus study), if a plus is not used in this way.  The plus can not "cure" in that sense. Long - term prevention, requires that Nate keep after his child, to wear the plus, when the child gets back down to 20/30.  Thanks Nate, and Jake - you have done it right !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lxDeSBhyjY

Jake is not aware of that steady, -1/2 diopter per year, per each year in school.  I think Nate is aware, and will keep his own child, WEARING THE PLUS THOUGH THE SCHOOL YEARS.

Guess what? That does not cost Nate any money.  When I suggest, "myopia free", I mean a family, where the medical-doctor parent, fully realizes the CONSEQUENCE for his child's long-term vision - if the child refuses to wear the plus for all  close work.

The parent (Nate) must check the child's refraction and visual acuity, and the child must exceed the 20/25 line.  So I regret that Jake does not understand this issue.   Is Nate a "Crack-pot" for being very intelligent, and protecting HIS CHILD"S distant vision for life?



Jake  calls Otis' method crackpottery:
Then there's the new bit of crackpottery that is "plus lens therapy".  People's imagination is sometimes equally stunning and lacking, all at the same time.  Let's find a quick fix for everything!  This one too, in video form on our Youtube channel:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4k30dbjSc0
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Alex_Myopic on March 23, 2016, 03:01:22 PM
Thanks for the answer Wheelie. I think that others can confirm that at Dr Alex's times the main program of about 50 email prewritten installements was about 150 dollars.

Trully Jake tries to differentiate (marketing trick?). He tells that Bates' method is just "bullshit", tells some weird remarks about plus lenses and explains how to buy a smartphone with a bigger screen and have it further away to avoid near stress instead of just wearing plus..! He even makes fool of eye exercises (PVS method?) while some Dr Alex's posts about finding active focus are just like an eye exercise and he even used lenses for people who weren't able to achieve active focus. But on the other hand he even makes free  video tutorials, says that if someone has time his whole program is in his free blog to read and he could have hidden juicy topics only for members, but he does not generally except for his forum even to read access.
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Alex_Myopic on March 23, 2016, 05:52:43 PM
Thanks for the reply Mr Brown. Jake said he didn't want people without much motivation and relation to the topic to be members of his forum and do always complaining posts about their bad results, so that's why he made it members only. But why block the read only access then?! (rhetoric question)
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 25, 2016, 10:09:59 AM
Hi Alex,

I profoundly LIKE what Jake is doing - complaining on a daily basis about the intellectual blindness of putting a poor defenseless child into a strong minus, when the child can still read the 20/40 line.  That act, will kill the child's vision, at a rate of -1/2 diopter per year.  Do you think I am lying about that scientific fact?

But you complain about Jakes result, insisting that 1) He did not have a -5 diopter prescription, and 2) Did not get back to 20/20.

Well - maybe.  In fact, the only objective proof I would ask is this - can Jack pass the official 20/40 line, or better.  Then PUBLISH, his driver license which will show him qualified to drive with no minus lens.

I do not know what the rest of you are complaining about. 

Jake need "money" to keep on going.  The OD needs "money" to keep on going.  Exactly HOW are the different??

So you love the OD, who will assure you that his "minus lens is PERFECTLY  SAFE  ", and Jake, who informs you that the OD is not safe for your child?

Get REAL for a change !

Thanks for the reply Mr Brown. Jake said he didn't want people without much motivation and relation to the topic to be members of his forum and do always complaining posts about their bad results, so that's why he made it members only. But why block the read only access then?! (rhetoric question)
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Wheelie on March 25, 2016, 02:22:58 PM
Sometimes there's no alternative for strong lenses for kids

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=84-Cuc-Tz2o
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on March 25, 2016, 04:32:12 PM
Here is another video of children, being put into a strong plus lens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1EpkVN5AUo

The funny part of this, is that are layman-optometrist, recommends wearing the plus lens!

I agree - but not quite for the reasons Optometrist-Wheelie states.

Use of a plus will complete PREVENT entry into myopia - if understood and worn correct.  But you must understand the reasons
to wear the plus - or you will not wear it.

The permanent wearing of a strong plus lens (+5 and +7) will result in the child's refraction going EVEN MORE POSITIVE.  This is demonstrated,
in this objective experiment:

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wildsoet/images/pos_lens_induce_hyperopia.swf

The effect on these children, is that they will become even more hyperopic. 

If layman-OD Wheelie would like to discuss this issue - I would enjoy the discussion.


Sometimes there's no alternative for strong lenses for kids

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=84-Cuc-Tz2o
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Alex_Myopic on March 26, 2016, 10:33:13 AM
Maybe at young age and with minus lenses on at extensive near work people gen get at the rate of -1/2D per year which is a high rate.
I didn't mention that Jake wasn't -5D and hasn't made it to 20/20. I mentioned -4D because when he was prescribed -5D he continued wearing -4D.

1000 dollars per person I believe can get him rich not just "keep on going".
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: OtisBrown on April 04, 2016, 11:08:18 AM
Hi Alex and Eugene,

NOTE:  I appreciate Jake, and what he is doing.  But there is only one medical doctor who is successful.  It is Nate's child.  Remember, Jake does not understand WHY it is necessary that a child wear a +2.5 diopter - to get to confirmed 20/25.  (Which is great for any child.)

Jake also says "success" in 9 nine months.

This is a long-term proposition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lxDeSBhyjY

But I do agree - it is an objective success. But you must understand, that this process must be maintained, as long as
his child is in school.  What convinced me of this, is the proven -1/2 diopter per year you have for the normal eye - if you  reject
wearing the plus in this way - when you see your own vision at 20/40.

There is nothing a medical person can do about this.  Only an educated, wise, concerned parent can do this.


Maybe at young age and with minus lenses on at extensive near work people gen get at the rate of -1/2D per year which is a high rate.
I didn't mention that Jake wasn't -5D and hasn't made it to 20/20. I mentioned -4D because when he was prescribed -5D he continued wearing -4D.

1000 dollars per person I believe can get him rich not just "keep on going".
Title: Re: EndMyopia - A complaint about expensive glasses.
Post by: Alex_Myopic on April 05, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
Here is another blurred post of Jake about plus while he is wearing plus!
Many people have to work close up in order to live for example programmers, tailors... they cannot just cut on time they spent near focusing and Jake didn't mention that elongated-myopic eyes tend to have less presbyopia so plus lenses is not dangerous developing presbyopia more easily.

http://endmyopia.org/should-you-try-plus-lenses/

and his advised solution about smartphones "eye strain monsters"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4LrhdlFLYY

(I remember Mr Brown commenting on youtube "why not just wear plus lenses?" but there isn't any comment left now. Did Jake delete it or I am wrong?