Getting Stronger: Discussion Forum

Discussion Topics => Rehabilitation => Topic started by: sleepmaster4 on September 02, 2016, 09:06:59 AM

Title: BannedFromTheGym.blogspot.com to 20/20 Vision Part 1: R-4.0,L-4.5 to -1.25,-1.25
Post by: sleepmaster4 on September 02, 2016, 09:06:59 AM
I'm new here and been working hard at vision improvement since late December 2013 when I had a R-4,L-4.5 prescription.  I've gotten eye exams every month since then and managed to drop it to -1.25 in September 2015.  I got the vision restriction removed from my drivers license three months later.  Since then I haven't been able to break under -1.25 and my astigmatism has creeped up from .5 to the 1 to 1.25 range or worse.  I finally concluded my eyes are oriented too far to the right as a result of writing right-handed and the car drivers seat being on the left side of the car so my right eye has the middle of the windshield to look through.  So I am taking active steps to undo that.

Has anyone here tried ortho-K to make your vision worse to make it better?(you know what I mean)  Both plus lens glasses and contact lenses do not cover the entire portion of the eye that light goes through and I'm wondering if that's why plus lens usage hasn't been giving me anything for awhile.

I'm also wondering if it's good to use plus lenses for distance if you are -1 or better, in contrast how it's good to use plus lenses just outside blur point to get down to the low -1s.  The shape of the eye is different, and the pulls are different at different focal lengths.
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: tiger on September 03, 2016, 05:31:58 AM
Hi Sleep Master,

See below quote from: http://www.iblindness.org/forum/t-Finally-got-20-20-crystal-clear-vision-%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%93-my-Updated-success

Btw, congratulations on your success so far, could you please post a more detailed account of your story since December 2013?
  # Where you get your eye exams every month
  # What resources and method have you been using
  # Any personal tip and tricks you have discovered on your journey so far
  # Etc. etc.

Note that the author did not use any plus lenses and read clear text the whole time, but still managed to improve.
Most of the iblindness forum is wacky Bates method stuff, but this story stands out:

Quote
07-04-2013, 02:01 AM
Fist of all, sorry for my English since it is not my fist language.

Back in 2008, I started a thread about my fist 4 month experience with Bate method , here is the topic
<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.iblindness.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1147">viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1147</a><!-- l -->

And today, July 4th 2013, I am totally CURED form myopia. No more blurry vision. My vision is 20/20 crystal sharp and clear! Its amazing.

So I will list here what I have done from May 2008 and what i think about vision improvement here.

_Basic info: I was myopic. About -2.5 to -2.75 Diop, both eyes. Wearing glasses from 15 year old to 24 year old ( in 2008). So it was about 9 year wearing galsses. Test with snell chart showed that my vision was about 20/200.

* 5/2008 => 11/2008
+ Take off glasses complely
+ Practice Long Swinging many times everyday, a few hundreds swing each time.
+ I am a programmer, work on computer a lot so I wanted to use the computer to help me to improve my vision. So I decided to put the computer screen 5 centimeters further a way from me every week. At first the screen was 30 centimeters away. And up to 11/2008, I can put it 80 to 100 centimeters away and work easily. It was a huge improvement.
+ working on the snellen chart a few time a day.

The result:
+ at first I experienced terrible headaches. But they went a way after 1 or 2 weeks when I got used to see without glasses.
+ my vision improved up to 20/40.

At that time, i was very satisfied with   the result. I could live without glasses. Could work, play sport… effectively without glassed. You know, went form 20/200 to 20/40 was a huge improvement. ( but compare to my 20/20 vision today, 20/40 is nothing lol )

+ most effective exercise in this period for me was just working on computer (8 hour every day) with the screen put further away every week. Long swing helped too.

* 11/2008 to 1/2013:
didn’t practice as often as before. Got married, got 2 kids, life got much more busy. When I got busy with other things I didn’t spend enough time to practice long swing or wok on snellen chart any more. Any my main strategy:” putting the computer screen further every week” hit it maximum potential since I can not put the screen more than 1 meter away ( have you ever seen someone that sit 1.5 to 2 meter away from the computer screen at work? lol)

- But sometime when I was not so busy and had more free time, I spent a few minutes to work on the snellen chart and do the long swing as well. And although I know that I didn’t spend enough time to practice, my vision still improved during this period. I know that because when I drove, I could see things that I usually couldn’t see well before. That means my vision was improved.

* 1/2013 to Jun 15 2013 (a bout 2 weeks ago)

This period, I was not busy with work. Kids also growed and I didn’t have to spend much time to take care of them. My wife quit her job to stay home, take care of the kids and do all the house work. So this period I have free time again. And I decided to continue my journey to 20/20 vision.

Practice:
+ Long swing many times a day.
+ working on snellen chart many times a day.

Result:
Great! My vision improved significantly. Got clear vision many many times during the day. But these clear flashes were not stable. They usually went away after a link. Then came back quickly after another blink. I got so many clear 20/20 flashes, but I just counldn’t keep them permanently.

Something was missing! And I was confused!

One day, I read a part of David’s method a bout center vision

The link is: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.iblindness.org/davids-method/method-vision-improvement.php">http://www.iblindness.org/davids-method ... vement.php</a><!-- m -->
goto the part a bout “CLAIM YOUR CENTER OF VISION”

I notice that I don’t have good enough habit of central fixation. The idea is look at smaller spot at a time on any larger object you're looking at. The smaller the better.

And then I read somewhere that Dr Bate said that reading fine print all so help to improve vision. Bingo. I think I found what I was looking for

I immediately change the font of my webbrowser to the smallest that I can, zoom out of the webpage to the point text on the browser is so tinny but still sharp and black, and readable. Then I just sit normally ( about 1 meter from the screen) and read the webpage.
After 5 minutes I looked out of the window and everhing was bright, shard and 20/20 clear.

Now I know I found my powerful exercise. Since I am a programmer, work 8 hours a day on the computer, that mean with this newly discovered exercise, I am back to practicing fulltime a gain.

And since 2 weeks ago, I just worked on computer, reading webpage with tiny font many hours a day, and my vision improved every day.

And today, when I am outside, walking down the street with stable 20/20 vision, seeing people, houses, cars, tree, street signs clearly and easily, I feel like a happy child! That is the vision that I once had when I was a child and now I regain it after a long 5 years journey. But it is definitely worth it!!!

So that is my story. I think if I had more free time, know what to do and practice every day I can be cured sooner. But that is life, we have so much things to worry about beside improve our vision. And 4 out of 5 years I didn’t try hard to practice at all lol.

Hope everyone will get good result like me!
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: sleepmaster4 on September 05, 2016, 08:53:53 AM
To prove I am not a troll:

https://www.yelp.com/biz/golds-gym-annandale (https://www.yelp.com/biz/golds-gym-annandale) (february 25, 2015)

My optometrist charges 89 bucks a month for eye exams.  I've seen optometrists charge as cheaply as 45 bucks a month.  I just get the barebones measurements, 20/x, refractive error, astigmatism.  I only get my glaucoma and closeup vision tested once a year.  Nor do I get contact lenses or distance glasses fitting/consultations.  It is still expensive, but if I get to zero diopters, I want a record to back it up.  Plus I like how paying 89 bucks a month makes me take vision improvement very very seriously.

These are my refractive error exam results from just after I started to getting my drivers license vision restriction removed:

Dec 2013: -3.5,-4
Jan 2014: -3,-3
Feb 2014: -3.25,-3.25
March 2014: -2.75,-3
April 2014: -2.5,-3
May 2014: -2.5,-3
June 2014: -2.25,-3
July 2014: -2.5,-2.75
August 2014: -2.25,-2.75
September 2014: -2, -2.25
October 2014: -2.25, -2.75
November 2014: -2.25,-2.25
December 2014: -2.25, -2.25
Jan 2015: -2.0,-2.5
Feb 2015: -2.25,-2.25
March 2015: -2.5,-2.5
April 2015: -2.0,-2.0
May 2015: -2.25,-2.25
June 2015: -2,-2.25
July 2015: -1.75,-1.75
August 2015: -1.75,-1.75
September 2015: -1.25,-1.25
October 2015: -1.5,-1.5
November 2015: -1.25,-1.25
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: sleepmaster4 on September 05, 2016, 09:19:45 AM
Where can I buy test lenses.  I've bought plus lenses from zennioptical and eyeglasspeople and neither is willing to sell me just the lenses.  I've been searching around forever for a place that sells just the lenses, and very strong ones at that.  The drop I had in September of 2015 from -1.75 to -1.25 was from incrementally jacking up the plus lens from -2 to -6 diopters.  I bought some +28 diopter plus lenses from eyeglasspeople but they would only sell them to me in frames.  Stacking lenses is much better than stacking glasses with handles on them.
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: sleepmaster4 on September 05, 2016, 09:46:40 AM
I used natural means to get down to -3. 

Then I used plus lenses starting with the +.5 lens which I used from -3 to -2.25.  Then I used the +.75 lens and +1.00 lens to get to -2.  Then the +1.25, +1.5 and +1.75 and +2.0 lenses to get to -1.75.  One can see the diminishing returns.

I sensed going from the -4s to 0 was going to be really really tough, so I saved the heavy firepower after I hit my first plateau at -3.   Going from the -4s to -3 was relaxing the ciliary strain.  After that I had to change the shape of the eyeball which is much much harder.  I wanted to save the plus lenses for that phase. 
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: OtisBrown on September 07, 2016, 06:50:37 PM
For Sleepmaster and Tiger,
Subject: When to use the plus - when it can't be used.

I support, "throw away your minus lens", with the condition, that you can still personally read and pass the 20/40 line.

I think we should NEVER start wearing a minus lens - in the first place.

Provided the person his motivated, and has SOME VISUAL ACUITY from 20/40 to 20/60, he should go "cold turkey". 
(That is equivalent to the plus - at that point.) If you are effective, "cold turkey" and ACTUALLY CHECK A SNELLEN,
then that is the point you should start wearing a "weaker plus" for all close work.

As your Snellen, get to the 20/30 to 20/25 level (you actually have to check, because you are the only one who cares),
you can go to a stronger plus.  At this time I am wearing a +2.75 for typing this.

I do not consider this to be "medical" in any sense of the word.  I do not make "claims", and I do not care about money as such.

Post your Snellen here, and do not bother with a prescription. They are almost always off by at least 1 or 2 diopters.

The plus is never a "cure".  It is for prevention.

Enjoy,
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: mantasva on September 07, 2016, 11:19:47 PM
That is some awesome gains! 3 diopters reduced in less than 2 years!
I used natural means to get down to -3. 

Then I used plus lenses starting with the +.5 lens which I used from -3 to -2.25.  Then I used the +.75 lens and +1.00 lens to get to -2.  Then the +1.25, +1.5 and +1.75 and +2.0 lenses to get to -1.75.  One can see the diminishing returns.

I sensed going from the -4s to 0 was going to be really really tough, so I saved the heavy firepower after I hit my first plateau at -3.   Going from the -4s to -3 was relaxing the ciliary strain.  After that I had to change the shape of the eyeball which is much much harder.  I wanted to save the plus lenses for that phase. 

Did you used plus lenses over your contacts?
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: sleepmaster4 on September 10, 2016, 08:03:19 AM
I rapidly undercorrected my contact lenses until I stopped using any minus lens whatsoever two weeks after I started vision improvement. 

I started using plus lenses a month after stopping all minus lenses, so I've never worn plus lenses over minus lenses.
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: OtisBrown on September 10, 2016, 07:40:04 PM
I rapidly undercorrected my contact lenses until I stopped using any minus lens whatsoever two weeks after I started vision improvement. 

I started using plus lenses a month after stopping all minus lenses, so I've never worn plus lenses over minus lenses.

Congratulations - and thanks for that information.  I know each person is "unique", in the combinations of "methods" that they might use - on themselves.  Some call it "exercise", some call it "the plus", but the truth is that no one knows - for certain.  Just the refractive changes you got - are truly impressive.  I am pleased you found an OD who would support you and believed in  your success.

For myself, (who went though pure hell on these subjects), I thought that I would have been extremely happy, if I had been taught to always wear the plus (when at 20/40) and never wear the minus - even if I had to do what you  are now doing.  I would be very happy to go though life with 20/30 or better, and never wear a minus lens - ever again.

You now know that the "last stage" is reasonable.  In fact, I now that 20/25 would be an excellent standard and success.  It is now totally under your control - which is the only way of success.
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: rajaty on September 12, 2016, 06:36:38 AM
David De angelis also struggles with last diopter, he was using +1 all the time and +4,+5 for reading, which helped him out.

Also distance vision improves distance vision. One of my fav eye exercise is wearing a plus and following birds flight in the sky.

Rajat
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: sleepmaster4 on September 18, 2016, 01:59:15 PM
Bridge overpasses work well where you can watch cars zoom out from underneath you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-_02ZfGd0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-_02ZfGd0s)

For best results find an overpass that is directly over traffic that is shooting as straight away from you as possible. without having to look through a glass or plastic barrier.
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: sleepmaster4 on September 18, 2016, 02:03:04 PM
That reminds me of when I'd hang out in a parking lot that had lots of pigeons in it.
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: OtisBrown on October 21, 2016, 06:35:51 PM
I rapidly undercorrected my contact lenses until I stopped using any minus lens whatsoever two weeks after I started vision improvement. 

I started using plus lenses a month after stopping all minus lenses, so I've never worn plus lenses over minus lenses.

THIS IS REAL, OBJECTIVE SUCCESS!!

I personally do not "claim" success, beyond about -2 diopters. 

I am thinking of posting this on my site - to show what a motivated person can accomplish, with dedicated motivation.

You did it exactly correctly.  No use of the plus - only reduce the minus, and wait to get to 20/40 to 20/60.  You then can BEGIN wearing the plus, and stop wearing the minus - completely.

I can never "predict" who will get this idea, and who will not.  But you did get the idea.  I BELIEVE you - you are no troll !
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: OtisBrown on October 21, 2016, 06:40:16 PM
Where can I buy test lenses.  I've bought plus lenses from zennioptical and eyeglasspeople and neither is willing to sell me just the lenses.  I've been searching around forever for a place that sells just the lenses, and very strong ones at that.  The drop I had in September of 2015 from -1.75 to -1.25 was from incrementally jacking up the plus lens from -2 to -6 diopters.  I bought some +28 diopter plus lenses from eyeglasspeople but they would only sell them to me in frames.  Stacking lenses is much better than stacking glasses with handles on them.

OBTAINING TEST and REFRACTIVE MEASUREMENT LENSES.

It is true that they will not sell, "ONE" lens.  But why not buy "TWO", for about $!0?  That is how I make up my own check lenses.  In fact, with intelligence and motivation (when you reach the 20/60 line) you can prescribe your own -1.0 diopter - for yourself.  That is what I do.
Title: Re: Getting to zero diopters from the -4s
Post by: OtisBrown on October 21, 2016, 08:25:47 PM
Hi Sleepmaster 4,
Subject: Success - is always self-measured.  I now totally dis-trust optometrist measurements - and here is the reason why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZID1fPHODdY

My personal judgment - is that I must always objectively read the 20/40 line - and do that before I go for any "OD measurement".

For myself, I just wear a strong plus (as I am doing it now), to make certain  I stay in the 20/20 to 20/15 range.

I just do not make claims of success - beyond about -2 diopters.  But I do know that getting out of -4 diopters is possible.


Title: Re: Banned from the Gym to 20/20 Vision, Part 1
Post by: sleepmaster4 on September 20, 2017, 04:24:14 AM
Banned from the Gym to 20/20 Vision, Part 1, is now available on Amazon if one searches Amazon with "banned from the gym":

https://www.amazon.com/Banned-Gym-20-Vision-Part-ebook/dp/B075MTX1CL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1505907433&sr=8-1&keywords=banned+from+the+gym

After getting banned from golds gym and walking to places instead of driving for an alternative form of exercise, real eye exam results from an optometrist every month for two years until the drivers license vision restriction got removed:

http://i.imgur.com/fhHWo4L.jpg

Edit: Changing the title of the thread from "Getting to zero diopters from the -4s" to "BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1"

http://www.BannedFromTheGym.com
Title: Re: BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1: R:-4.0,L:-4.5 to R:-1.25,L:-1.25
Post by: sleepmaster4 on September 27, 2017, 12:39:30 PM
On this thread, I'll answer any questions about what I did, including about what's in the book.

Knowing what I know now, it's hard to believe that anyone whose worst vision was in the -3s or better, would not do this eye stuff and get their drivers license vision restriction removed.
Title: Re: BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1: R:-4.0,L:-4.5 to R:-1.25,L:-1.25
Post by: rtdfgdfgdfgdfg on September 28, 2017, 11:36:53 AM
how does someone with -4 get started to improve ?
Title: Re: BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1: R:-4.0,L:-4.5 to R:-1.25,L:-1.25
Post by: sleepmaster4 on September 28, 2017, 03:43:13 PM
Go cold turkey, no glasses or contact lenses.  If -4 is the worst you've ever been, start watching NFL football on TV from 8 ft away during daylight.  As you're watching, avoid trying to make out what you see.  If your eyes tear up, try to zone out to relax instead of blinking.  Also spend a lot of time outside walking around a lot in wide open areas.  Just watch out when you cross streets with -4 eyes, especially during twilight hours.  That's what I did to start out. 
Title: Re: BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1: R:-4.0,L:-4.5 to R:-1.25,L:-1.25
Post by: rtdfgdfgdfgdfg on September 30, 2017, 12:12:04 PM
are you 20/20 now ?

Title: Re: BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1: R:-4.0,L:-4.5 to R:-1.25,L:-1.25
Post by: sleepmaster4 on October 01, 2017, 12:13:35 PM
My vision is not 20/20 now, but it's probably better than some who claim to have 20/20 vision if they base theirs on blur interpreting a familiar line on an eyechart on their wall.  At eye exams administered by an optometrist that involve an unfamiliar eyechart in a darkroom, I haven't yet been able to get beyond the 20/25 line.

Even if I could read the 20/20 line in the optometrist's exam, I'd still be reluctant to say I have 20/20 vision until my refractive error is at zero diopters.  That's why the book says Part 1.  I need to get to zero diopter 20/20 vision for there to be a Part 2 book.
Title: Re: BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1: R:-4.0,L:-4.5 to R:-1.25,L:-1.25
Post by: rtdfgdfgdfgdfg on October 03, 2017, 01:53:59 PM
okay

so if a person has -4, what do they do to improve apart from stopping glasses ?
Title: Re: BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1: R:-4.0,L:-4.5 to R:-1.25,L:-1.25
Post by: sleepmaster4 on October 03, 2017, 05:35:41 PM
Spend a lot of time outside in wide open areas, preferably symmetrical wide open areas that are both wide and deep and deeper than they are wide.  One example is walking in the centers of long straight low traffic residential side streets.  Walking is better than standing still since walking is more challenging for the eyes, similar to how it's more challenging to focus a moving camera than a stationary one.
Title: Re: BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1: R:-4.0,L:-4.5 to R:-1.25,L:-1.25
Post by: rtdfgdfgdfgdfg on October 11, 2017, 11:50:26 AM
Spend a lot of time outside in wide open areas, preferably symmetrical wide open areas that are both wide and deep and deeper than they are wide.  One example is walking in the centers of long straight low traffic residential side streets.  Walking is better than standing still since walking is more challenging for the eyes, similar to how it's more challenging to focus a moving camera than a stationary one.

.......okay

how would I know if I was improving

Title: Re: BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1: R:-4.0,L:-4.5 to R:-1.25,L:-1.25
Post by: sleepmaster4 on October 12, 2017, 06:00:27 AM
If your vision is truly better, at night the halos around lights will seem smaller.

When you walk around outside in centers of long straight side streets to improve vision, ideally at least 30 minutes a session, it's important to keep the eyes relaxed as much as possible for optimum results.  If your eyes are still tense even after trying to relax them, you may have to zone out a little when you walk.  Naturally zone out a little, not with drugs or alcohol.  Seem a little droopy-eyed if you have to.  That's the direct opposite of trying to make out what you see, which you should avoid like the plague.  I say that because sometimes it's tempting to test your vision to see what street signs you can read from a distance, or if you can see this or that object.

Palming eyes inside a darkroom for 20 minutes at a time can also help the eyes become more relaxed before you go outside for those 30 minute sessions.

I'd try to go down from -4 to -3 this way, and then start using the +.5 plus lens for up close work once you get you get to -3.

That's based on -4 being the worst your vision ever was.  If your vision was once -5, then it's going to be tougher to get down to -3 without plus lenses and you may have to start using plus lenses once your eyes improve to the -3.5 level.
Title: Re: BannedFromTheGym.com to 20/20 Vision, Part 1: R:-4.0,L:-4.5 to R:-1.25,L:-1.25
Post by: sleepmaster4 on October 20, 2017, 10:46:24 PM
https://bannedfromthegym.blogspot.com/

For now, a free version of Banned from the Gym to 20/20 Vision