Getting Stronger: Discussion Forum

Discussion Topics => Rehabilitation => Topic started by: Steven on December 04, 2012, 11:01:05 AM

Title: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on December 04, 2012, 11:01:05 AM
Is this the full book ?

http://books.google.ro/books?id=CgC8ZKTA3Y4C&lpg=PP1&pg=PP1&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

If yes, enjoy !

Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on December 05, 2012, 09:02:56 PM
Hi Steve,

I totally support that book - and your efforts.  There is a massive amount of information on this subject - so be prepared!  Here are two sites that discuss the concept of prevention in some detail.

http://myopiafree.i-see.org/


http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/

My PERSONAL interest was to help my sister's three children, were the plus when necessary.  Knowing that most people (probably) don't have the long-term motivation, I devote my interest to pilots - who do have the interest.  Todd is here to help you, and the rest of us will support you, and will answer your questions if we can.


Is this the full book ?

http://books.google.ro/books?id=CgC8ZKTA3Y4C&lpg=PP1&pg=PP1&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

If yes, enjoy !


Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on December 06, 2012, 10:15:28 AM
Stephen,

Since you are at -4 diopters - here is the recommendation of an ophthalmologist.
++++++

Better vision exercise, for those with -4.00 or higher prescriptions:

1. Buy an Amazon Kindle, get some books you really enjoy to read.

2. Change the font size to one you can hold at about 20" from your face and just barely see some blur in the text.

3. Read an hour a day (ideally before your first meal if possible), no glasses, keeping the text at the edge of blurriness.

Don't wear any sort of prescription. If necessary in the beginning (till you develop a habit), set yourself a five minute timer to remind yourself about keeping the text at the edge of blur. Keep moving the Kindle, just fractions of an inch as you read, just where sharp meets blurry.

This all by itself could cut 0.50 to 1.00 diopters off your prescription in about a year and a half, done consistently (diet, an extended regimen including computer work, peripheral vision exercise, and prescription adjustments may greatly improve results, but the above exercise alone will help at the very least maintain your current vision, and quite possibly improve it).

http://www.facebook.com/FrauenfeldClinic

Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on December 06, 2012, 11:23:09 AM
Hi Otis.

My current prescription is -3 left eye -3.75 right eye (which i feel is over prescription now).
I no longer have -4 in both eyes.

Right now i am reading this forum and the book.

You said i should go for a -2 to start with for long distance. I was thinking more of a -1.5.
I will order the next week at my local glass technician a pair of -1.5 for both eyes, since i am in Europe and the lenses i get from him are good quality from a Japanese firm.

Yes it will cost me more then the site you suggested but i can try everything here.

So:
1. I should use the -1.5 or -2 only for long distance and i must try to focus on things that are just outside my visual range ( a little blurry ). Correct ?

2. When using "push print" i use no glasses and when the image becomes too clear and my arm too short for the book i should use a +1, then +1.5, +2, +2.5 etc. as my vision improves.

3. Will using a very strong plus all day, no matter the activity, reverse my myopia much faster or will the eye just ignore the effort and stay the same ?

4. Will using a -1.5 or -2 while looking in the distance make my eyes more myopic or will my vision improve as long as i focus on semi-blurry spots ?

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on December 06, 2012, 01:53:19 PM
Steven,

Let me answer your question in parts.  OF TOTAL IMPORTANCE - Get a GOOD Snellen, put it up permanently at 20 feet and read it.  Put a bright light on it.  All success will be judged by you from this "starting point".  You have a long way to go.

You said i should go for a -2 to start with for long distance. I was thinking more of a -1.5.

1)  If a -1.5 gives you 20/40 - then that is the correct choice.  Check yourself.

I will order the next week at my local glass technician a pair of -1.5 for both eyes, since i am in Europe and the lenses i get from him are good quality from a Japanese firm.

2)  Then find out which line you read through a -1.5.

Yes it will cost me more then the site you suggested but i can try everything here.

3. If you see 20/60 through the -1.5, you will need a strong minus to drive a car.

So:
1. I should use the -1.5 or -2 only for long distance and i must try to focus on things that are just outside my visual range ( a little blurry ). Correct ?

4.  Check your Snellen.

2. When using "push print" i use no glasses and when the image becomes too clear and my arm too short for the book i should use a +1, then +1.5, +2, +2.5 etc. as my vision improves.

5.  Also, check how far you can read WITH NO GLASSES.  My guess would be 13 inches.  But check yourself - and let us know.  Have a bright light on the book.

++++

If you are a true -4, you could only read at 10 inches. 
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on December 06, 2012, 01:56:14 PM
Part 2.


3. Will using a very strong plus all day, no matter the activity, reverse my myopia much faster or will the eye just ignore the effort and stay the same ?

Otis> If you can read at 15 inches - then that is a start.  If at 20 inches, it is too blurry to read, then you can't wear any plus.

4. Will using a -1.5 or -2 while looking in the distance make my eyes more myopic or will my vision improve as long as i focus on semi-blurry spots ?

Otis>  The idea is to avoid wearing a minus lens - if you can.  At -4 diopters - that is indeed difficult.  If you get the -1.5, then you will probably wear that most of the time.

Let us know when the you get the -1.5 - and your Snellen with the -1.5

Thanks!


Thank you.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: 888 on December 06, 2012, 09:12:18 PM
I'm about a -2.50 and a -1.50 is too blurry. I wear a -2.00 for daily use, just low enough to be able to drive safely. It's better to go down 0.25-1.00 from your regular prescription. You don't want to go too low or else your eyes will simply give up on focusing. You want to challenge your eye to focus. To get a better idea of what under-prescriptions to order, simply wear a pair of low power plus lenses over your regular prescription glasses and use the snellen.

I actually made a -1.50 by popping out lenses out of a pair of dollar store +2.00 reading glasses and taped them over my original RX -3.50 glasses. Though they hurt my eyes and I can't drive with them.

Check out some of the blog entries and thread on this site. They call the idea of under-corrections a "normalized" prescription.
http://www.myopiachallenge.com/29-differential-prescription-part-i/ (http://www.myopiachallenge.com/29-differential-prescription-part-i/)

Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on December 07, 2012, 02:22:05 AM
My feeling is that under corrective lenses do not improve myopia by their own. Under corrective lenses only help myopia stop progressing if used for long distance only and for limited amounts of time. But if under corrective lenses are used for close work then myopia will increase (less then it does with full prescription but more then without glasses.)

After using +2.5 around the house, even if everything is blurry my eyes are significantly improved. This means the plus lens even if everything is blurry is reshaping the eye.

Using a very strong plus (+5 or more) for extended periods of time would cure myopia. Even if the eye is forced to do incredible "weightlifting" it has no escape.

I found out that using a strong plus increases my visual acuity much more then print pushing or seeing at the edge of blur.

I think that is why Otis says ( ideally ) to avoid the minus lens.

If i use the -1.5 only for outdoor activity (no driving), and i use the +2.5 or more inside home for extended periods of time, my eyes should go in time to -1.5. (20/20)

Ideally (for fastest curing) would be to wear strong + all the time outdoor & indoor and no minus lens at all.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: jansen on December 10, 2012, 09:51:23 PM
Hey Steven,

Thats a very interesting point, wearing strong plus throughout the day. I always thought that my forcing your eyes beyond the limit and beyond the blur point, the eyes will "give up." I have heard of cases where people put on +7.00 lenses and looked into the distance. The person reported sudden improvement in visual acuity, but only for a short period of time I believe.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 02, 2013, 10:30:04 AM
Hi Jansen and Group,

Subject:  Medical people who totally support the plus.

Re: But it does take systematic, long-term wearing of a plus - just to be effective AT PREVENTION.

We often want a medical person to 'tell us what to do".

Please read:




http://frauenfeldclinic.com/three-tricks-to-keep-your-2020-eyesight/
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 02, 2013, 03:49:01 PM
Right now i can read at 20 inches at the edge of blur. That means my dominant eye is somewhere below -3. I can't wear any plus or else i won't see a thing at 20 inches with normal sized text.

Now lets recapitulate all this.
I went from -0.5 as a child, to -0.75, -1, -1.75, -2.50, -3, -4 diopters.

Now i am 24 years old. After 1 month of simply not wearing glasses. i went to the same doctor that gave me all this minus hell and the prescription went from -4 in both eyes, to :

-3 for the dominant left eye and -3.75 for the non dominant right eye.
Also a -2 cylindrical in both eyes, despite the fact that another doctor said -1 cylindrical.

These are my current glasses that i do not wear right now except for driving a car.
I recently managed to test a -1.25 spherical with no cylindrical for both eyes and they had a very nice feeling (they didn't stressed my eyes).

Now i want to point some things out.
My vision is mostly made up by the dominant eye. Because of that, the image to the brain is made up mostly by the -3 eye.

A diopter is a unit of measurement of the refractive error. It may be a negative number (myopia, nearsightedness), or a positive number (hyperopia, farsightedness). A -1.00 diopter myope is able to see objects at 1 meter clearly. A -2.00 diopter myope is able to see objects at a ½ meter clearly. The greater the myopia, the strength of the lens in diopters needed to correct the refractive error, and the closer an object must be to be viewed clearly.

This means that if i want to get an under corrective pair of glasses, taking into account that i am -3, i must decide first at which distance i need to see perfect.

For example if i buy a -1.25 pair of glasses then my eye/s that are -3 will still have -1.75.
Now, -1.75 means that i see perfectly at 1/1.75 = 57 centimeters. Is that enough for my daily distance needs or my workplace ? If yes then i should buy a pair of -1.25.

Lets take another example:
If i buy a -1.50 pair of glasses then my eye/s that are -3 will still have -1.50.
Now, -1.50 means that i see perfectly at 1/1.50 = 66 centimeters. Is that enough for my daily distance needs or my workplace ? If yes then i should buy a pair of -1.50.

My impression is that the curing of myopia is faster for those who get an under corrective lens that is more then 1 diopter from their current prescription. Why is that ?

Well take my example. If i go to work and i need 57 centimeters of clear vision this is what happens :

I use the glasses to distinguish my colleagues. But if i focus my eyes on anything that is closer then 57 centimeters then my eyes become more myopic. The time spent focusing at over 57 centimeters is annulled by the time spent at focusing on anything under 57 centimeters.

The conclusion is : If you get more then 1 diopter below your current prescription you will spend less time focusing on objects that are within your eye's reach. But, if your work demands more power, then adapt you glasses to that, according to the example i gave above.

*****

Otis i still didn't managed to test a pair of 1.5 but with the -1.25 squinting only i could read 20/50.
Right now since i am looking for a job, i am still deciding what glasses i would need for the potential job.

If it's a job where i will only use the computer then i would get a very low prescription like -1.25 or -1.5.
If the job demand more i could get something around -2.

A person without glasses and with myopia of :
0 = clear image at infinity ?

0.25 = clear image at 4 meters.
0.5 = clear image at 2 meters.
0.75 = clear image at 1.3 meters.
1 = clear image at 1 meter.
1.25 = clear image at 80 centimeters
1.5 = clear image at 66 centimeters
1.75 = clear image at 57 centimeters
2 = clear image at 50 centimeters
2.25 = clear image at 44 centimeters
2.5 = clear image at 40 centimeters
2.75 = clear image at 36.36 centimeters
3 = clear image at 33 centimeters
3.25 = clear image at 30.7 centimeters
3.5 = clear image at 28.57 centimeters
3.75 = clear image at 26.66 centimeters
4 = clear image at 25 centimeters
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 02, 2013, 05:24:32 PM
Dear Steve,

Let me state that I greatly appreciate Todd's success.  I will not attempt to "explain" it - except to say that I am pleased he personally verified his vision as passing the State required DMV test.  I will also state that I have seen profound over-prescription of from -1 to -4 diopters (that I documented with Todd - by mailing him the information).

The chart you develop assumes that OD make ACCURATE MEASUREMENTS.  I found that totally wrong.  What they do is to "crank up" on their Phoropters - as hard a possible - and give you a very strong minus.  That FIRST over-prescribed minus - (in my opinion) kills you distant vision.  When *I* argue to get out of it, I assume the person can read the 20/60 line with no minus lens on his face.  In that range, there is evidence that the person can get to 20/40 in about six to eight months.  For another six months of wearing a plus, he could "make" 20/20, and positive status.

I do not enjoy being the "bearer of bad news" - but I try to be as fair minded as possible.  I don't make "claims" beyond the above statements.

If you are taking about self-measured CHANGE, then, given this statement, you would have to get a positive change of +1.5 diopters - and that would take about one year - in my judgment.
++++++

Otis i still didn't managed to test a pair of 1.5 but with the -1.25 squinting only i could read 20/50.

Otis> Using a Snellen and a "test minus" is the only accurate measurement system you have. 

++++++

Right now since i am looking for a job, i am still deciding what glasses i would need for the potential job.

Otis> I GAVE UP DEALING WITH ODS.  They are just not "worth it".  If you want a "correct" lens, then, if you are an engineer, and prepared to do everything yourself - the this is what I would do.

1)  Get about four "test lenses", of  -1/2, -1, -2 and -3, from Zennioptical.com
2)  Look at your Snellen, and hold each one up.  Find one that clears the 20/30 to 20/25 line.  Then order that lens strength from Zenn.
3)  I am tired of paying ODs $250 and $150 for glasses.  This is what I would do.
4) In my  judgment this is NOT MEDICINE, it what I DO.


If it's a job where i will only use the computer then i would get a very low prescription like -1.25 or -1.5.
If the job demand more i could get something around -2.

Otis> Getting these test-lenses is the key.  They cost about $4 each. But it takes a wise determined person to do it.

Otis>  I -2 D would probably meed most of your needs.  For driving a car, you choose a lens that gives you 20/30 to 20/20 vision.  (Always meet the legal requirement.

Otis> Here is a video on how to order lenses from Zenni.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_u39cB27bg

Otis> Here is how I use a lens to measure my refractive state.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7cU-0onSvI

Otis> In your case, you would find the WEAKEST minus to give you "just" 20/40 to 20/30.

Otis> I "draw the line" and insist that this is NOT MEDICINE, and NOT A MEDICAL MEASUREMENT.  It is science and self-measurement of my refractive STATE.

Otis> If you decide to continue - let us know.

Otis> I "arm twisted" my nephew (when he was 14 years old) to BEGIN the use of a plus 2 - when he was SLIGHTLY nearsighed.  I had no desire to see him have his vision DESTROYED WITH A MINUS.

Otis>  He knew I told the truth.  So he would the plus through college, always passing the DMV, and never had to "deal" with an OD in an office.  He is now over 40 years old - and kept it that way.  He KNOWS how difficult it is to "keep motivated". 

Otis> If you decide to go "down this path" - let me know.


A person without glasses and with myopia of :
0 = clear image at infinity ?

Otis> Correct.

Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 04, 2013, 01:07:15 PM
Dear Otis Brown, i have two additional questions.

1. If i use a +2.5 or more all day long, and avoid the minus lens completely, would that cure my myopia the fastest way possible ?

2. The higher the plus on the glasses the faster my myopia will be reversed ?

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 04, 2013, 07:25:19 PM
Hi Steven,

From what you have told me, I do not see how you could wear a +2.5 diopter.  Have I missed something?

What is a reasonable suggestion is to wear no lens for computer work - at this time.

Otis


Dear Otis Brown, i have two additional questions.

1. If i use a +2.5 or more all day long, and avoid the minus lens completely, would that cure my myopia the fastest way possible ?

2. The higher the plus on the glasses the faster my myopia will be reversed ?

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 05, 2013, 01:11:24 AM
Hi Steven,

From what you have told me, I do not see how you could wear a +2.5 diopter.  Have I missed something?

What is a reasonable suggestion is to wear no lens for computer work - at this time.

Otis


Dear Otis Brown, i have two additional questions.

1. If i use a +2.5 or more all day long, and avoid the minus lens completely, would that cure my myopia the fastest way possible ?

2. The higher the plus on the glasses the faster my myopia will be reversed ?

Thank you in advance.

You are absolutely right. You didn't missed anything.
I was asking hypothetically.
In principle, if i use a strong plus, every day, while doing nothing at all (since i would not see anything), would that cure myopia the fastest way possible ?
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 05, 2013, 05:19:32 AM
Hi Steven,

You ask me about "cure".  I am not a medical person, so I can not use the word "cure" - I hope you  understand.

Since you KNOW you can't wear a +2.5 D, (because of total blur), why do you ask the question?  I do not now of any way to "speed" anything up.

I don't make 'claims', but encourage pilots who have some possibility of objective success, to begin wearing a plus before their Snellen goes below 20/60 - as stated on my site:

http://myopiafree.i-see.org/

If you are interested in hypothetical prevention (for pilots) - then send me an email.

Otis



Hi Steven,

From what you have told me, I do not see how you could wear a +2.5 diopter.  Have I missed something?

What is a reasonable suggestion is to wear no lens for computer work - at this time.

Otis


Dear Otis Brown, i have two additional questions.

1. If i use a +2.5 or more all day long, and avoid the minus lens completely, would that cure my myopia the fastest way possible ?

2. The higher the plus on the glasses the faster my myopia will be reversed ?

Thank you in advance.

You are absolutely right. You didn't missed anything.
I was asking hypothetically.
In principle, if i use a strong plus, every day, while doing nothing at all (since i would not see anything), would that cure myopia the fastest way possible ?
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 05, 2013, 10:39:06 AM
Steve,

If you ask me about the "public" and the wise use of the plus - you will find the public TOTALLY HOSTILE to any OD who recommends the continued use of the plus - when your Snellen goes below 20/50.  When a person (with strong motivation) wears a plus 2.5 diopters - with long-term commitment, he can become successful.  Here is the commentary:

http://myopiafree.i-see.org/prent.txt

I truly wish we were OFFERED THIS PREVENTIVE APPROACH, but it is very clear that virtually no one will take it seriously when they are at -1.0 diopters and 20/60.

Does this help you understanding?
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 05, 2013, 02:29:41 PM
Hi Steven,

Since you KNOW you can't wear a +2.5 D, (because of total blur), why do you ask the question?  I do not now of any way to "speed" anything up.


Because i could do an effort and use a big plus lens all day long to cut some more diopters from my myopic eye before i get the under-corrective lens.

The reshaping of the eyes takes some considerable time, but you can hurry things up by putting an extra strong plus lens and going for a walk in the park for example. Or staying as a 'vegetable' at home or in the park while using a stronger plus all day long.

Does this help you understanding?


Yes, It does help me understand.

So this is what i will do :

1 As soon as i can read at more then 50 cm from computer screen, with my naked eyes, i will start using plus lenses to read at the edge of blur.

2. I will get the -2 glasses for both eyes, like you said Otis and use them only for activities where i require my eyes to focus not less then 1 meter away ( because the -2 glasses will make my eyes see perfect at 1 meter) ... [ -3 are my eyes now, with the 2 aid from glasses results in 1 diopter left untreated, meaning at 1 meter perfect vision. ]

Looking at anything below 1 meter will make my eyes more myopic with the -2 glasses.
Using correctly the -2, will keep the far images in blur and will prevent further deterioration of my eye.

3 Once my distance vision with the -2 glasses gets closer to 20/20 i will go for a -1 lens.

I will use a plus lens indoors for reading, computer work. I will avoid minus lens indoors except for television. I will use no glasses or a small plus lens when going in the park. I will use the minus lens only for critical work at the job.

Is my judgement correct ?

Thank you !
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 06, 2013, 07:45:56 AM
Dear Steve,

This is *MY* objective understanding of a minus lens.  Yes, a minus lens DOES make your distant vision extremely sharp, in an office, in several minutes.  The ODs tell me that ANY wearing of a minus "has no effect", and is "perfectly safe".  Here is what pure science shows.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wildsoet/images/neg_lens_induce_myopia.swf

This is why I suggest avoiding the minus - as much as possible.  I very-wll understand the difficulties of doing that.

+++++

Yes, It does help me understand.  (Otis> Good, WRT difficuties, the PRENTICE statement convinced me no OD could help me.  His remarks that the "public" finds plus-prevention "tedious" explains why no OD will bother discussing this issue.

Steve> So this is what i will do :

1 As soon as i can read at more then 50 cm from computer screen, with my naked eyes, i will start using plus lenses to read at the edge of blur. (Otis> That is 20 inches.  When you can do that, your "calcuated" refractive state would be -2.0 diopters.  Let me add this "marker" for success.  When you begin to read the 20/60 line (most of letters) that indeed will be a "red letter day").

2. I will get the -2 glasses for both eyes, like you said Otis and use them only for activities where i require my eyes to focus not less then 1 meter away ( because the -2 glasses will make my eyes see perfect at 1 meter) ... [ -3 are my eyes now, with the 2 aid from glasses results in 1 diopter left untreated, meaning at 1 meter perfect vision. ]

Otis> This is where YOUR Snellen on the wall and YOUR "test" minus lens will help.  You MUST pass the 20/25 line though a minus that you select - to drive a car. This is indeed a matter of personal responsiblity.

Steve> Looking at anything below 1 meter will make my eyes more myopic with the -2 glasses.
Using correctly the -2, will keep the far images in blur and will prevent further deterioration of my eye.

Otis> When you CAN read the Computer with no lens - that is a big START.  You distant vision will still be blurred, so you will  use a -2 only when "looking" at objects beyond you screen. (yes this is a pain-in-the ass to do.)

3 Once my distance vision with the -2 glasses gets closer to 20/20 i will go for a -1 lens.

Otis>  That will be the plan.  It is a very slow process - of course.

I will use a plus lens indoors for reading, computer work. I will avoid minus lens indoors except for television. I will use no glasses or a small plus lens when going in the park. I will use the minus lens only for critical work at the job.

Steve> Is my judgement correct ?

Otis> That is a good approach.  But it is a slow process.  I think both of us understand how hard it is to sustain the motivation to keep the minus off the face when doing "near work".  I also hope you reach the point (in about six months) were you can begin to read the 20/70 and 20/60 lines on your "home Snellen".

Otis> In my opinion, you are trying to "reverse" the effect of wearing a strong minus - for years.  Feel free to post your experience as you go though this process.


Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 06, 2013, 10:02:35 AM
Dear Steve,

Subject: When Optometrists recommend the use of the plus (when you are at 20/40).

It is nice to KNOW that they do that.  I respect this person's intelligence - although she was not told WHY it would be wise to wear the plus for all close work.  (That WOULD take some time - but I think she would get the idea.)  If she was entering a four-year college (with 20/40) you could TELL HER that her vision would GO DOWN by -1.4 diopters in four year - if she did not continue the process  she is using. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWjnNM0VYM4&feature=related

As an engineer, (at 20/40, and -1.0 diopters) I would be certain to ask, "why is it necessary that I wear the plus", and "what are the consequences to me if I DO NOT WEAR the plus through the college years. 

As an engineer, I learned that if I want something done "RIGHT" - I have no choice at all, but to DO IT MYSELF.  I hope this helps your understanding of these issues.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 08, 2013, 06:41:19 AM
Otis,

I am going tomorrow (European time) to get the -2 lens spherical for both eyes with no cylindrical lens.

When i manage to get 20/20 with the -2 i will go again and buy a -1 spherical for both eyes.

Right now, at this very moment, according to my own measurements i am around -2.75 left eye and -3.25 right eye after several days of training.

Should i still go for the -2 ?
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 08, 2013, 07:27:31 AM
Hi Steven,

I think it is very important to do what I am doing in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7cU-0onSvI

I am verifying BOTH my visual acuity, and my refractive STATE (in this case it is positive).

You should have a Snellen chart at 20 feet (as I do) and the lines marked so you can read them - in large letters.  It will be 'discouraging' at first.  But, I would count your success as the 1) Minimum minus you require to clear the 20/60 line.  (If it is -1 diopter, then that is a first stem.  2) I would find the minimum minus to clear the 20/40 line.  (Perhaps -2 diopters) 3) The minimum minus to clear the 20/25 line - as I use that for my test.

I show a VERY low-cost set-up.  My test lenses are also low-cost.  But the amount of DETERMINATION to do this work - is incredible. Both of us - had we been TAUGHT TO DO THIS when we were at 20/50 - would have gotten out of it in about six months - in my opinion. Here is some more commentary on your statements:



Otis,

I am going tomorrow (European time) to get the -2 lens spherical for both eyes with no cylindrical lens.

Otis> Good - you can check the above on your "home Snellen" - objectively.

When i manage to get 20/20 with the -2 i will go again and buy a -1 spherical for both eyes.

Otis> I would sincerely suggest the goal of reaching naked-eye 20/60 vision - as the best reasonable goal you can have.  Find, the minimum minus it takes to "clear" that 20/60 line.  If it is a -1.0 diopter, then that is the amount of "change" you need.  20/50 and 20/60 actually passes a few DMV tests (although I would never drive a car with 20/60 vision.)

Right now, at this very moment, according to my own measurements i am around -2.75 left eye and -3.25 right eye after several days of training.

Otis> Again the big mistake is to report a "prescription", never a Snellen reading.  Why not start reporting you Snellen, and then the minus lens.

Otis> I am a great believer in "personal measurement, and personal experimentation".  These steps are very simple, and very wise.  Why not?

Should i still go for the -2 ?

Otis> Not until you report your naked eye at 20/60.  There is indeed a "balance" here.  Keep on working - this is frustrating indeed!!


Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 08, 2013, 08:09:21 AM
My naked eye can read the 20/60 line (no squinting) but the image is blurry.
i just need 10 seconds to focus the chart and i can say the letters at 20/60 with no glasses.

Great video by the way !

So at 20/60 what lens should i take tomorrow ?

I only have a -1.25 at home to test tonight (my mother's glasses)
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 08, 2013, 08:21:51 AM
Hi Steve,

In my opinion - that is the FIRST major step into OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENTS.  This is SCIENCE and ENGINEERING - never 'medicine'.

You future "improvements" must be judged relative to that 20/60 line.  It does not matter if it is "blurry", only that you read it - as your official Visual Acuity.  Since I know you read 20/60, I suspect you can read you computer at 20 inches, with no lens.  It that correct? Try it - and see.

With 20/60, you can probably watch the TV at 4 feet, OK, with no lens.  At 20/60 you can "work around the house" with no lens. (Yes, you will have to "squint" for some things, but that's OK also.  These are ALL PERSONAL JUDGMENTS ON YOUR PART.  They are easy - but most people "panic" when they stop wearing the minus (most of the time).

I am glad you checked - so know you know!  Keep up the resolve.

How should you use the -1.25 lenses have at home.  Read the 20/60 line, with naked eyes. Then hold up the -1.25 diopter and read the line where you can "make out" 60 percent of the letters.

Report the result here:

Thanks!


My naked eye can read the 20/60 line (no squinting) but the image is blurry.
i just need 10 seconds to focus the chart and i can say the letters at 20/60 with no glasses.

Great video by the way !

So at 20/60 what lens should i take tomorrow ?

I only have a -1.25 at home to test tonight (my mother's glasses)
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 08, 2013, 08:39:03 AM
You are correct i can read computer now at 20 inches, i can watch TV at 4 feet. I never use minus glasses inside home.

I want to get rid of all myopia, no matter what.

I will report as soon as my mother gets home. In 30 minutes probably.

Thank you !
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 08, 2013, 09:17:27 AM
Dear Steve,
I am an engineer - and try to be as honest and objective as I can.  Prevention is truly difficult.  What you READ IS OBJECTIVE.

I know that the typical OD wants to give  you incredibly sharp vision (which means that children get a -4.0 diopter lens -when they can still read the 20/60 line.  From pure science, we know that the minus has an adverse effect on the refractive STATE of all natural eyes - tragically.

What you do - in the future - is up to you.  But you must be objective, and as far as I am concerned must make this critical choice - yourself.

I suspect on your "home Snellen" (that I hope you have set-up and marked as I have marked mine) that you can read the 20/40 line though that -1.25 diopter lens.  You will find out OBJECTIVELY by checking yourself.

If that is the case, let us know.  You can then plan your "visual acuity" future from that point on.

Having a "permanent Snellen" set up, will enable YOU to "see" improvements.  That is what I do, so I don't have an OD TELL me my "vision is bad" - or issues of that nature.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 08, 2013, 09:37:53 AM
Dear Steve,
I am an engineer - and try to be as honest and objective as I can.  Prevention is truly difficult.  What you READ IS OBJECTIVE.

I know that the typical OD wants to give  you incredibly sharp vision (which means that children get a -4.0 diopter lens -when they can still read the 20/60 line.  From pure science, we know that the minus has an adverse effect on the refractive STATE of all natural eyes - tragically.

What you do - in the future - is up to you.  But you must be objective, and as far as I am concerned must make this critical choice - yourself.

I suspect on your "home Snellen" (that I hope you have set-up and marked as I have marked mine) that you can read the 20/40 line though that -1.25 diopter lens.  You will find out OBJECTIVELY by checking yourself.

If that is the case, let us know.  You can then plan your "visual acuity" future from that point on.

Having a "permanent Snellen" set up, will enable YOU to "see" improvements.  That is what I do, so I don't have an OD TELL me my "vision is bad" - or issues of that nature.


Dear Otis,
I made the test. I used the same setup like you.

I can indeed read all the letters in 20/40 line through the -1.25 lens. The line is very blurry.

If i squint i can even read the 20/25 line.

What lens do i need to order ?
( A -1.75 maybe  ? )

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 08, 2013, 12:14:23 PM
Hi Steven,

Remember, I provide advice only on the basis that *I* would do it.

Yes, I would order -1.75 diopter SPHERICAL, and that should guarantee that I pass the REQUIRED 20/40 line.  I don't consider my own measurements to be medical - in any sense of the word.

Again, clearing off 1.25 diopters (to read the 20/40 naked eye) is a VERY SLOW PROCESS.  You ALONE can judge this process.  But a major step is to be able to function (at home) with no  minus lens on your face.  If you manage to "get alone" in this way for the next six months (with outdoor exercise) I think you will clear the 20/50 and 20/40 lines. 

I order all my "test lenses" and glasses from Zennioptical.com:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_u39cB27bg

This is a slow process - so be prepared.

Otis




Dear Steve,
I am an engineer - and try to be as honest and objective as I can.  Prevention is truly difficult.  What you READ IS OBJECTIVE.

I know that the typical OD wants to give  you incredibly sharp vision (which means that children get a -4.0 diopter lens -when they can still read the 20/60 line.  From pure science, we know that the minus has an adverse effect on the refractive STATE of all natural eyes - tragically.

What you do - in the future - is up to you.  But you must be objective, and as far as I am concerned must make this critical choice - yourself.

I suspect on your "home Snellen" (that I hope you have set-up and marked as I have marked mine) that you can read the 20/40 line though that -1.25 diopter lens.  You will find out OBJECTIVELY by checking yourself.

If that is the case, let us know.  You can then plan your "visual acuity" future from that point on.

Having a "permanent Snellen" set up, will enable YOU to "see" improvements.  That is what I do, so I don't have an OD TELL me my "vision is bad" - or issues of that nature.


Dear Otis,
I made the test. I used the same setup like you.

I can indeed read all the letters in 20/40 line through the -1.25 lens. The line is very blurry.

If i squint i can even read the 20/25 line.

What lens do i need to order ?
( A -1.75 maybe  ? )

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 08, 2013, 12:34:58 PM
Thank you so much Otis.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

I hope one day all people in the world will manage to learn how to maintain proper visual habits.

This evil medical establishment must go away forever. All they care is about money.

Check your private message inbox.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 08, 2013, 05:07:23 PM
Dear Steven,

Subject: Using "measurement terms" to describe my refractive state - as self-measured positive, or negative.

There are optometrists, and medical people who have SUGGESTED prevention at the -1.0 and 20/40 stage.  When they tell this to parents, or ATTEMPT TO PROMOTE IT, they are told by their "other" medical people that the PUBLIC (You and I) WILL NOT *STAND FOR IT*!!!

No, they are not "evil", but prevention is difficult, and depends exclusively on the intelligence and "enlightened" self-motivation of the person himself.  It a way they are "beat down" by the profound ignorance of the "public" that "walks in off the street".  That would be OK by me, UNTIL THEY START TELLING ME THE MINUS IS PERFECTLY SAFE, AND HAS NO ADVERSE EFFECT ON ALL NATURAL EYES.  Making that type of false scientific statement - is indeed evil.  Because it prevents an HONEST SCIENTIFIC REVIEW OF THE POSSIBILITY OF PREVENTION AT THE 20/40 LEVEL. 

You have take that "first step" - and a journey of 1,000 miles begins with but a single step.  This is a complete LEARNING process - and I am certain you will do your own research.

It was important to me that my "blood relatives" have the information they needed for prevention.  I think (where possible) a family member should help (but that is rare).  My site, "Myopia Free", should be stated as "Preventing entry into myopia - for free".  I can't say a lot of "getting out of it", but the idea of being wise (at 20/40, and -1 diopter) is free, and if you get OUT OF IT, you are FREE OF MYOPIA.

Keep on posting your experience.  Let me remind all who read this - that you started at -4.0 diopters, and are 24 years old.  You are now able to read the REQUIRED DMV line (20/40) through a -1.75 diopter lens. 

As you might know, a medical doctor, Nate, is aware of this problem - will have his commentary in due course.

Thanks,

Otis



Thank you so much Otis.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

I hope one day all people in the world will manage to learn how to maintain proper visual habits.

This evil medical establishment must go away forever. All they care is about money.

Check your private message inbox.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: PROH on January 08, 2013, 08:48:59 PM
Hi Steven

I am much worse than you .  Normally I keep

1) A pair by which I have 20/20 in day  20/25 in low light & use it outside for driving or for the moments when I need to have a clear image . Never use it indoor & close work.

2) Second pair by which I have 20/40 & use it outside for normal purpose & watching TV.

3) Third pair  by which I can read at about 40-60 cm my laptop for work.

Always try to balance both eye equally or somethimes give more privilege to weak . means if I have a strong & weak eye I keep the same difference of  power in each pair so that both eye work equally , otherwise the strong eye may improve faster than weak eye.

Normally order specs online to reduce cost

Proh

Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 09, 2013, 06:28:42 PM
Hi Proh,

I am often told that 1) Medical people don't advocate plus prevention 2) Long-term near has NO EFFECT on the refractive state of the eye.

Both these statements are false - as science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuMKV0_rV64

I am pleased that the "medical community" will now  help you child avoid entry into myopia.

Otis



Hi Steven

I am much worse than you .  Normally I keep

1) A pair by which I have 20/20 in day  20/25 in low light & use it outside for driving or for the moments when I need to have a clear image . Never use it indoor & close work.

2) Second pair by which I have 20/40 & use it outside for normal purpose & watching TV.

3) Third pair  by which I can read at about 40-60 cm my laptop for work.

Always try to balance both eye equally or somethimes give more privilege to weak . means if I have a strong & weak eye I keep the same difference of  power in each pair so that both eye work equally , otherwise the strong eye may improve faster than weak eye.

Normally order specs online to reduce cost

Proh


Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 10, 2013, 04:23:59 AM
Hi Otis,

So,
I have gone yesterday and today to my technician.

I explained to him everything and i tried to convince him, but he said, as a friend, he understands what i want to do (reverse my myopia) but "legally" he can't prescribe me anything but full prescription, especially since he is not a doctor.

So we tested my eyes today.

These are my last 3 tests :

1.
The test was done in 2006. I used this from 2006 to late 2011 :
Spherical OD -4 OS - 4
Cylindrical OD -2 OS -2

2.

The test was done in early 2012. I used this from 2012 until late 2012  (i started using my eyes correctly / not using minus glasses / using plus lens ) :
Spherical OD -3.75 OS - 3
Cylindrical OD -2 OS -2

3.
This test was done Today in 2013. The result was :
Spherical OD -2.5 OS - 2.5
Cylindrical OD -1.5 OS -1.5

So today i got my best results, meaning i only need 2.5 to see perfect.
Unfortunately as i said the technician didn't want to prescribe undercorective. But i have his signature on the full prescription.

I will have to order my glasses online. It seems the only way right now.

I have a question for you Otis. Is Astigmatism (Cylindrical) reversible like normal Spherical myopia ?
If yes, does it go away with the same vision "hygiene" i use for myopia ?

Thank You so much.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 10, 2013, 10:04:30 AM
Hi Steven,

So you want to "argue" with an OD, MD, Technician, who tells you that ALL PREVENTION IS ILLEGAL!  They you try to CONVINCE him that "even prevention from 20/40 is possible."  This always reminds me of the "Great Wizard of OZ".  If you truly believe him - then stop all this nonsense about prevention.  But here is my assessment of *me* getting into an argument with a person who believes his is a "perfect expert".
++++++
Never combat any man’s opinion; for though you reached the age of Methuselah, you would never have done setting him right upon all the absurd things that he believes.

It is also well to avoid correcting people’s mistakes in conversation, however good your intentions may be; for it is easy to offend people, and difficult, if not impossible to mend them.

If you feel irritated by the absurd remarks of two people whose conversations you happen to over-hear, you should imagine that you are listening to the dialogue of two fools in a comedy. Probatum est.

The man who comes into this would with the notion that he is really going to instruct in matters of importance, may thank his stars if he escapes with a whole skin.

Arthur Shopenhauer,  1788 – 1860
++++++
Let me repeat - I am good friends with ODs and MDs. But I do all my own measurements AT HOME - with my own trial lens kit.  I always know by visual acuity BEFORE I do, and if I get a "bad astig (cyl) prescription", I take the script home and put it on the table.  Then I read my Snellen (at 20/40 or better), and if I should need a -1/2 diopter lens - from MY OWN MEASUREMENT - I just order it from Zennioptica for $10.  I truly do not "need" ODs to tell me that 1) Prevention is IMPOSSIBLE and 2) It is illegal for them to help me with true-prevention.  You will have to make your own choice on this matter.

I will respond to your other points - in due course.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 10, 2013, 10:14:22 AM
Hi Steve,

It is easy to get "fearful" of certain words like, "astigmatism" (Cyl.).  This is a very difficult measurement to make, and is almost always NOT NECESSARY.  It is very difficult to do with ANY ACCURACY. But don't believe me - look at this measurement arrangement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yB90F8zrow

Further, it is very rare that ANY ASTIGMATISM will prevent  20/25 to 20/20 vision.  MY OPINION?  You must have some astig. in each eye - understood. But when you look WITH BOTH EYES OPEN, the brain over-lays both images in your mind, and cancels out ANY ASTIGMATISM IN EACH EYE.

I ALWAYS insist on NO ASTIG MEASUREMENT.  (Use spherical equivalent.)  If they don't agree - I go to another OD who will give me what I request.

COMMENT ON YOUR FIRST MEASUREMENT:  -4 D with -2 astig.  Convert to "Spherical Equivalent", by taking 1/2 the astig and adding it. So you were a -5.0 diopter myope in 2006.  That is  your "stating point".

It addition to excssive over-prescriptions, you also encounter excessive astigmitism "corrections".  You will have to make your own "educated" judgment on these issues.  I truly do not think I can be of any help to you at this point.







Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 10, 2013, 10:33:35 AM
Dear Steven,

I have seen so many terrible over prescriptions - that I just gave up going to ODs.  REMEMBER, I am always OBLIGATED to PASS THE DMV 20/40 line.  I always check. Here is how I personally verify my refractive STATE. As an engineer, I trust my OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENTS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrfuLuibclY

In fact, if you wish to order a -2.25 D, after you make this personal measurement - by all means - do so. But I assume you will only wear it for the 2 hours you might spend driving a car.  Since you have 20/60 vision, there would be no reason to wear a minus at any other time.  I think if you just did that, you would find your Snellen would "improve" to 20/50 in about two months.

Good luck,
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 10, 2013, 10:42:32 AM
Hi Steve,

An excess over-prescription? You decide:

3.
This test was done Today in 2013. The result was :
Spherical OD -2.5 OS - 2.5
Cylindrical OD -1.5 OS -1.5

You have CONFIRMED 20/60 VISION ON YOUR OWN SNELLEN.  You have proven to yourself that a -1.75 will probably get you to 20/20, when you only require 20/40 or better. 

Here is the spherical-equivalent of these two measurements:

-2.5 D (Sph) + 0.5 * -1.5 = -3.25 diopters, both eyes.

It looks like you are over-prescribed by -1.5 diopters.  This is why I use my own "spherical lenses" to measure my refractive STATE - MYSELF. 

I am certain your OD (technician) believes you should wear your -3.25 all the time.  He assumes that your world is totally "blurred out".

You have a major "life-choice" to make here - and I can't make it for you.

If it were me I would  1)Keep that Snellen always on the wall. 2) Put a bright light on it 3) Check each day at 20 feet. 4) Avoid wearing any minus lens (since I have 20/60). 

That is, in effect, like wearing a plus all the time - for now.  The nice thing is this - IT TAKES NO EFFORT AT ALL FOR YOU TO DO THAT MUCH.

You are educated and smart. I don't let others to TELL ME WHAT TO DO.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 10, 2013, 11:02:37 AM
Thank you Otis.

Yes they gave me initially 0.5 and 0.75 astigmatism when i was 9 years old. Then 1, then 1.5 etc 2.

But that woman ophthalmologist i had was known to give over prescriptions. I was a kid i never knew what is best for me.

Now i know.

If astigmatism grows then it can also be reversed. I am convinced my astigmatism was induced. I do not ever want to deal with cylindrical lenses again. They are always hurting my eyes.

-1.75 will probably give me clear 20/40 since i am at 2.50 now. (and some astigmatism is not helping at all)

I am not using any glasses right now. Only strong plus from time to time.

I only hope the astigmatism is reversible like myopia.

What is the real cause of astigmatism ?
Wearing a cylindrical lens when you need no cylindrical lens will make you more astigmatic ?
Are there such things as plus cylindrical lenses ?
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 10, 2013, 11:16:31 AM
Hi Steven,

I truly think that ALL NORMAL EYES HAVE SOME ASTIGMATISM.  The way I "deal" with it, is to just us a "spherical" lens on myself.  (As I think you should.)  If a spherical lens will clear the 20/25 to 20/20 line for you - I would ignore any "assumed" astigmatism I *MIGHT* have.

From the video I presented it is VERY DIFFICULT TO MEASURE - AND PRONE TO EXCESSIVE ERRORS.  It is just not worth any worry about it.

I was very pleased to find out you can objectively read the 20/60 line. That means THERE IS HOPE.  My *step* would be to 1) Avoid any wearing of a minus - except for driving. 2) Squint - if necessary - for some objects.  3) Outside exercise -tennis in season. 4) MONITOR THAT SNELLEN.  5) Do not expect "rapid progress".  6) Expect reading the 20/50 line in about one month.  7) Get a (weak) +1.25 dioper for close work - when you get to 20/50. 

That is what *I* would do.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 10, 2013, 11:44:48 AM
Great advices Otis Brown.

I really appreciate them and your effort of writing here.

***

Otis i was wondering, do you use any plus lens for close activity ? (since i assume that you are already affected by Presbyopia)

Or did you manage to have perfect close vision by putting from time to time minus lenses ? From my understanding Hyperopia & Presbyopia are different, obviously.

Hyperopia can be treated with minus lenses and it's the opposite of myopia.

Can you share your thoughts about Presbyopia ?
I mean, can you get over 40+ years and still l be able to see clear at distance and close forever ?
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 10, 2013, 11:58:48 AM
Otis, Take a look here please : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGdWAdtOEgA

About Astigmatism how it appears, how to fix it.

What do you think about the information in the video ? (you need to put quality to 1080p or 720p to see the text clearly.)
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 10, 2013, 01:40:35 PM
Hi Steven,

Please watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbqhW08sH0


This is the "Astigmatism" (Cyl.) measurement.  Take a look. If you want to do this to yourself - that would be great.  But if you can clear your 20/20 line with a "Spherical" lens (which I THINK YOU CAN - IF YOU GET THE LENS TO CHECKING), I *personally* would not "bother" with this test. The OD's LOVE THIS TEST.  I think it is TOTALLY NOT NECESSARY.  If you are truly interested, the obtain the trial-frame, and make the measurement yourself.  I simply have no interest - as long as I can clear my 20/20 line with my own lens.


Otis, Take a look here please : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGdWAdtOEgA

About Astigmatism how it appears, how to fix it.

What do you think about the information in the video ? (you need to put quality to 1080p or 720p to see the text clearly.)
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 11, 2013, 07:45:07 AM
Hi Steven,

Please watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbqhW08sH0


This is the "Astigmatism" (Cyl.) measurement.  Take a look. If you want to do this to yourself - that would be great.  But if you can clear your 20/20 line with a "Spherical" lens (which I THINK YOU CAN - IF YOU GET THE LENS TO CHECKING), I *personally* would not "bother" with this test. The OD's LOVE THIS TEST.  I think it is TOTALLY NOT NECESSARY.  If you are truly interested, the obtain the trial-frame, and make the measurement yourself.  I simply have no interest - as long as I can clear my 20/20 line with my own lens.


Otis, Take a look here please : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGdWAdtOEgA

About Astigmatism how it appears, how to fix it.

What do you think about the information in the video ? (you need to put quality to 1080p or 720p to see the text clearly.)

Basically, i don't want to clear my astigmatism with extra spherical lens. I want to clear myopia by using the plus lens and avoiding spherical minus lens AND at the same time i want to find a way to clear my astigmatism separately from myopia.

Can you take another look at the video i posted (the one you need to put quality of video in 720p or 1080p to read it).

Could that work to clear astigmatism ?
Is that the real cause of it ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGdWAdtOEgA
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 11, 2013, 08:13:05 AM
Dear Steven,

Subject: My opinion on *MY* vision, and "Astigmatism".

I think we FEAR words, when we truly do NOT understand them.  Words like "hyperopia, myopia, nearsightedness, anisotropia, pesudo-myopia, exophoria, esophoria".  The list is endless.  I know you will have your own ideas on this subject.

For me, as an engineer, I concentrate on ONE THING, getting my Snellen to 20/40 - or better.  I know that the above words, (including "Cyl." have profound distortions in them.) To avoid un-necessary conflict, I would concentrate on ONLY getting your 20/40 line clear.  EVERYTHING ELSE IS AN UN-NECESSARY DISTRACTION.  "Astigmatism" will never prevent you from getting to 20/20, and a positive refractive STATE.  Once you get to 20/20, (pass all DMV and PILOT TESTS), you can "worry" about ANY residual "astigmatism" you might actually have.

I concentrate on OBJECTIVE REQUIREMENTS - that I MUST PASS.  All normal eyes have SOME astigmatism. The FAA requires LESS THAN 1 diopters of astigmatism (As I recall.) It is NEVER a problem for professional pilots - so why are you concerned about it.

I am not critical of you - I just do not what you distracted about a subject that is not revalent to reaching an  OBJECTIVE, PRACTICAL GOAL IN YOUR LIFE.

Solutions are TOTALLY PERSONAL.  Therefore I just prevent OBJECTIVE FACTS, and HOPE the person understands them, and can achieve a reasonable personal goal.

Otis
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 11, 2013, 08:37:06 AM
Dear Steven,

Subject: My opinion on *MY* vision, and "Astigmatism".

I think we FEAR words, when we truly do NOT understand them.  Words like "hyperopia, myopia, nearsightedness, anisotropia, pesudo-myopia, exophoria, esophoria".  The list is endless.  I know you will have your own ideas on this subject.

For me, as an engineer, I concentrate on ONE THING, getting my Snellen to 20/40 - or better.  I know that the above words, (including "Cyl." have profound distortions in them.) To avoid un-necessary conflict, I would concentrate on ONLY getting your 20/40 line clear.  EVERYTHING ELSE IS AN UN-NECESSARY DISTRACTION.  "Astigmatism" will never prevent you from getting to 20/20, and a positive refractive STATE.  Once you get to 20/20, (pass all DMV and PILOT TESTS), you can "worry" about ANY residual "astigmatism" you might actually have.

I concentrate on OBJECTIVE REQUIREMENTS - that I MUST PASS.  All normal eyes have SOME astigmatism. The FAA requires LESS THAN 1 diopters of astigmatism (As I recall.) It is NEVER a problem for professional pilots - so why are you concerned about it.

I am not critical of you - I just do not what you distracted about a subject that is not revalent to reaching an  OBJECTIVE, PRACTICAL GOAL IN YOUR LIFE.

Solutions are TOTALLY PERSONAL.  Therefore I just prevent OBJECTIVE FACTS, and HOPE the person understands them, and can achieve a reasonable personal goal.

Otis


I am concerned about it because if i could get rid of it i could already watch TV at a more reasonable distance, see the computer text on my computer monitor much easier, clear the Snellen much easier.

If the video shows the real cause and fix, then i can get rid of astigmatism and that would be an advantage.

Can you confirm Otis, that the information in the video i showed to you, presents the real cause of astigmatism and the fix they present is the right one ?

If my myopia goes to 0 and i still have -1 or -1.5 astigmatism, how do i get rid of it ?

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 11, 2013, 12:13:31 PM
Steven,

Subject:  FEARS - and a listing of them.  You are right to have fears - so  you can over-come them as I do.

Otis> Question:  Does your "near" vision truly LOOK THAT BAD? My "near" vision is excellent, never like that.  Please check OBJECTIVELY.  If you can't read anything "near" then you truly have a serious problem - that is not "astigmatic.

Otis> In my opinion, the video is not correct. it is misleading.  A person, for instance, with 20/20 vision, and -1.0 diopters of astigmatism, would read clearly at 20 inches.  The video is simply a distortion about that issue.

Steven> Can you confirm Otis, that the information in the video i showed to you, presents the real cause of astigmatism and the fix they present is the right one ?

Otis> I don't agree with the video.  I think you are making a mistake if you believe in that video - that's just my opinion. 

Otis> Further, most people who get to 20/40, and then to 20/20, find that their astigmatism - is almost gone.  You had better concentrate on getting your refractive STATE to change by +3/4 diopters, to pass the 20/40 line on your own Snellen.  I have developed a video on that subject, and will post it when I can get it up-loaded.

FEARS, PART 2:

As you mentioned, FEAR of an developing a detached retina (from negative-lens induced myopia) is my "fear".  But I always believe in presenting KNOW FACTS - as in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxLv7BIxnIU

Steven - I don't "kid around" about this behavior of all natural eyes.  It is fear of that over-prescribed minus, that motivates me to wear the plus, even when I PASS the 20/20 line.

But each of us must "face our fears" and act intelligently for prevention - before our Snellen goes below 20/60 - in my opinion.

Otis

Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 11, 2013, 12:23:33 PM
Steven,

Subject:  FEARS - and a listing of them.  You are right to have fears - so  you can over-come them as I do.

Otis> Question:  Does your "near" vision truly LOOK THAT BAD? My "near" vision is excellent, never like that.  Please check OBJECTIVELY.  If you can't read anything "near" then you truly have a serious problem - that is not "astigmatic.

Otis> In my opinion, the video is not correct. it is misleading.  A person, for instance, with 20/20 vision, and -1.0 diopters of astigmatism, would read clearly at 20 inches.  The video is simply a distortion about that issue.

Steven> Can you confirm Otis, that the information in the video i showed to you, presents the real cause of astigmatism and the fix they present is the right one ?

Otis> I don't agree with the video.  I think you are making a mistake if you believe in that video - that's just my opinion.  

Otis> Further, most people who get to 20/40, and then to 20/20, find that their astigmatism - is almost gone.  You had better concentrate on getting your refractive STATE to change by +3/4 diopters, to pass the 20/40 line on your own Snellen.  I have developed a video on that subject, and will post it when I can get it up-loaded.

FEARS, PART 2:

As you mentioned, FEAR of an developing a detached retina (from negative-lens induced myopia) is my "fear".  But I always believe in presenting KNOW FACTS - as in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxLv7BIxnIU

Steven - I don't "kid around" about this behavior of all natural eyes.  It is fear of that over-prescribed minus, that motivates me to wear the plus, even when I PASS the 20/20 line.

But each of us must "face our fears" and act intelligently for prevention - before our Snellen goes below 20/60 - in my opinion.

Otis



OK.

1. I overcome all my fears. I want to think of myself as being a strong rational person.
2. I see perfectly near. I do have some astigmatism that is OBJECTIVELY around -1 not -1.5 like my prescription says.
3. I do not believe that video is correct, that is why i asked you personally to tell me what you think of it. Thank you for doing that.
4. I will concentrate exclusively to cure myopia and will ignore astigmatism.
5. Tested my Snellen - i can almost see the 20/50 (not squinting). And the 20/60 line is more clear.

Thank you again. Your feedback is extremely valuable.

Avoiding any minus and wearing a strong plus several times a day really accelerates everything.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 11, 2013, 12:36:48 PM
Squinting i can see 20/40. But that doesn't count.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 11, 2013, 12:44:41 PM
Hi Steven,

Subject:  A video for you - and remarks about people who have posted on Todd's site.

I am "driven" by my own curiosity, and by the experience of those few ODs who recognized that the eye was in fact DYNAMIC, and that NO OD IN HIS OFFICE CAN EVER HELP YOU - SORRY TO SAY.

Todd created two "lists" or "blogs" on this issue of self-motivation and wearing a plus.  Almost always the person would either, 1) Get tired, 2) Become terrible fearful of wearing a plus 3) Have no REAL INTEREST in the true difficulties of prevntion. 4) Never looked at a Snellen, etc.

This is why I restrict to people like myself - who can be told scientific truth (video of the primate eye), and the SERIOUS PROBLEM THAT DEVELOPS IF YOU START WEARING A MINUS ALL THE TIME.  I know that "recovery" is very slow - I never deny it.  Also, you will not see "results" on your Snellen for about two months.  Repeated "glancing" at your Snellen is REQUIRED, in your own mind, to get the AVERAGE line you read.  NO OD CAN DO THIS FOR YOU - so you must do it yourself.  Gradually, the AVERAGE line you read will change (since you are avoiding wearing the minus most of the time.  Only AFTER you  personally confirm this - will you BELIEVE IT.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqUYXLOt2I8

It takes fortitude to do this. Feel free to add your own commentary to the video.

Otis
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 11, 2013, 12:53:54 PM
Hi Steven,

Subject:  A video for you - and remarks about people who have posted on Todd's site.

I am "driven" by my own curiosity, and by the experience of those few ODs who recognized that the eye was in fact DYNAMIC, and that NO OD IN HIS OFFICE CAN EVER HELP YOU - SORRY TO SAY.

Todd created two "lists" or "blogs" on this issue of self-motivation and wearing a plus.  Almost always the person would either, 1) Get tired, 2) Become terrible fearful of wearing a plus 3) Have no REAL INTEREST in the true difficulties of prevntion. 4) Never looked at a Snellen, etc.

This is why I restrict to people like myself - who can be told scientific truth (video of the primate eye), and the SERIOUS PROBLEM THAT DEVELOPS IF YOU START WEARING A MINUS ALL THE TIME.  I know that "recovery" is very slow - I never deny it.  Also, you will not see "results" on your Snellen for about two months.  Repeated "glancing" at your Snellen is REQUIRED, in your own mind, to get the AVERAGE line you read.  NO OD CAN DO THIS FOR YOU - so you must do it yourself.  Gradually, the AVERAGE line you read will change (since you are avoiding wearing the minus most of the time.  Only AFTER you  personally confirm this - will you BELIEVE IT.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqUYXLOt2I8

It takes fortitude to do this. Feel free to add your own commentary to the video.

Otis


I completely agree with you. Most people never try anything. They are just wasting the time of others who want to help them.

I am thinking of making a site for the country where i live, in my native language about all this. People need to know and never force their children to become myopic like me.

I have a strong will. I will go to 20/20. There is no going back for me.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 17, 2013, 12:23:42 AM
Tested my Snellen this morning. I had several flashes of clear sight where i could see the 20/50 very clear, almost seeing the 20/40 line with both eyes opened.

This would put me around -2.25, from the -2.50 scored at the beginning of January.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 23, 2013, 12:44:03 AM
Hi Otis again,

I recently saw an online shop here in my country from where i can order glasses with up to +3.75 cylindrical lenses.

Would a plus cylindrical lens have the same effect on an "minus astigmatic eye" the same way a plus spherical lens has an effect on "myopia" ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astigmatism_%28eye%29
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 23, 2013, 05:52:44 AM

Hi Steven,

I have no interest in putting myself into a -3.5 diopter astigmatic lens, when I have naked-eye 20/20 vision. But if you would like to try it, by all means order the lens.


Hi Otis again,

I recently saw an online shop here in my country from where i can order glasses with up to +3.75 cylindrical lenses.

Would a plus cylindrical lens have the same effect on an "minus astigmatic eye" the same way a plus spherical lens has an effect on "myopia" ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astigmatism_%28eye%29
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: PROH on January 23, 2013, 11:00:35 PM
Hi Steven


First we have to understand how cylinderical power is measured & what is different between -/+ cylinderical power .

As per my understanding with an example assume some one is having following prescription

-2sph -1 cyl X degree = (-2-1)sph +1 cyl (X+90)degree= -3 +1CYL (X+90)degree

Another example is
Notation Spherical Cylindrical Axis
Plus-cylinder notation +2.00 +1.00 150°
Minus-cylinder notation +3.00 −1.00 60°

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyeglass_prescription

Cyliderical power is nothing but gives a favour in a particular axis . A simple way to reduce CLY power is to first try no cyl as suggested by Otis

Proh
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 24, 2013, 05:24:21 AM
I see, so minus cylindrical lens for horizontal astigmatism. Plus cylindrical lens for vertical astigmatism.

Not the same way the normal + - work.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: PROH on January 24, 2013, 08:29:11 AM
No steven


you can have either plus or minus for astimation. the difference is plus & minus will always have 90 degree phase shift & according to their cyl power adjustment in sph power


Proh
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 24, 2013, 07:07:35 PM

Proh,

Subject: ODs and MDs supporting plus prevention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuMKV0_rV64

The "brave" one point out the "deadly" bad habit of children that PRODUCES negative status.  But it is good to hear him SAY IT.

If you wear the plus, you can "slow it down" - but with even greater parental support, when the child is at 20/40 and "gets the idea", he can wear the plus with "no minus on top".  That will prevent it - but it also means long-term wearing of the plus by the child.  I am certain that everyone will "choke" on that suggestion.

But it turns out - it is truly and absolutely necessary.

We live in a "near world" of reading - but, it we understand that our eyes REQUIRE continuous DISTANT VISION, (and the plus does THAT for our eyes - as simple optics), the we can read and keep our refractive state at zero. This is truly a "learning process", with no "excessive claims ever made by me.

I don't mind PAYING to have some one do this for me - but that has never "worked".  You have to do it yourself - always.



No steven


you can have either plus or minus for astimation. the difference is plus & minus will always have 90 degree phase shift & according to their cyl power adjustment in sph power


Proh
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 25, 2013, 04:52:41 AM
For Steven,

I do provide "my opinion", and respect how difficult "just prevention" is, or will be for anyone in the 20/60 to 20/50 range.  I accept that, "success" is to reach a point were I begin to pass, or read the 20/40 line (most letters).  But that does take time, and long-term persistence.  Peter G. is still going through this process.
+++++
Steven:

OK.

1. I overcome all my fears. I want to think of myself as being a strong rational person.
2. I see perfectly near. I do have some astigmatism that is OBJECTIVELY around -1 not -1.5 like my prescription says.
3. I do not believe that video is correct, that is why i asked you personally to tell me what you think of it. Thank you for doing that.
4. I will concentrate exclusively to cure myopia and will ignore astigmatism.
5. Tested my Snellen - i can almost see the 20/50 (not squinting). And the 20/60 line is more clear.

Thank you again. Your feedback is extremely valuable.

Avoiding any minus and wearing a strong plus several times a day really accelerates everything.
+++++
If you a "lucky" enough to still read the 20/40 line, then you can avoid the minus.  Here is a "chart" of what happens to children who do not wear the plus:

http://myopiafree.i-see.org/soonicansee/index.html

I see "prevention" as a long-term process that is deeply understood by the person himself.  A child could not "understand" this issue, but I think a young man could understand it.  There is no "secret" to prevention.  It is basically a matter of hard-work - and long-term wearing of this plus.  This is why I suggest that you should plan on at least nine months of "plus wearing" - before you begin to see real results.

Otis
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on January 26, 2013, 04:04:16 AM
Hi Steven, Peter, and Proh,

Subject: What some very bright people have been able to "figure out" concerning prevention (up to 20/50).

As always, no one can tell *YOU* what you should, or should not do.  Further, you can not *tell* a person to wear a plus - to the extent that is must be used to become successful.  Thus this type of solution must spring from the "internal intellect" of the person himself.  I hope you enjoy reading the logic and science in this man's success.

http://myopiafree.i-see.org/AboutUs.txt

It not so much that "prevention" is impossible - it is more that it depends completely on the scientific out-look of the person himself, and the great wisdom and resolve to actually DO IT.

Otis
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on January 26, 2013, 08:36:38 AM
No steven


you can have either plus or minus for astimation. the difference is plus & minus will always have 90 degree phase shift & according to their cyl power adjustment in sph power


Proh

I see. Thank you.
So i use no cylindrical power at all.

But is there any lens, for a minus cylinder eye, that could potentially accelerate things, like the plus spherical helps the myopic eye ?

http://www.preventmyopia.org/ebook/09chapter4.htm
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: PROH on January 29, 2013, 02:56:40 AM
Hi Steven


I feel it better to have no CYL. Else which ever cyl power you chose (+/-) you will always be favouring a particular direction as compared to its orthogonal one .


Proh
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on February 18, 2013, 04:39:31 AM
Tested my vision today, 18 February.
I can see the 20/40 line, all letters.

That means i have -2.

My last prescription was -2.5.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on February 19, 2013, 06:06:40 AM
Hi Steven,

Let me congratulate you!

Success to me is to exceed the 20/40 line (required to drive a car).  It is also to have the "independence of mind" to recognize your own success - or set a "standard" that makes sense to both of us.  Once you see this "initial success" - it should encourage you to continue.  It would encourage *ME* to continue wearing the plus.  Knowing that people like Todd has made himself successful should help you.

I would encourage you to continue to wear the "plus" as a habit, and to prove to yourself that you can do it.  As a matter of *my* judgment, it will take steady wearing of the plus, for about nine months, to get a point where you exceed the 20/25 and 20/20 line.  This is now "pure-personal" to choose to continue.

Thanks - for your success!


Tested my vision today, 18 February.
I can see the 20/40 line, all letters.

That means i have -2.

My last prescription was -2.5.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on February 19, 2013, 08:18:59 AM
Hi Steven,

I spent a lot of time interviewing ODs and MDs. But very few would tell me that the "problem" is not the doctor - it is the person himself.  There is a profound amount of truth in this man's statement.  Success does not depend on the doctor at all.   It depends on the person himself.
As Dr. Prentice states - the person must have strong resolve and intelligence to make prevention "work" for the person.


http://myopiafree.i-see.org/prent.txt

I am often asked about "costs".  If you pay a person for continuous advice, and do not follow the advice -  then true-prevention is VERY EXPENSIVE.  If you have the basic concept and logic, and do-it-yourself, then the "cost" in money - is NOTHING.

The cost in PERSISTENCE - is everything.  I am not a "critic" of a person - but I know that persistence in this effort is VERY DIFFICULT TO INSPIRE IN ANY PERSON.  I hope this helps with your personal quest.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: peterg on February 19, 2013, 11:35:31 AM
Congrats Steve.  How do you figure your perscription is -2 based on your accuity testing alone? 

Have you tried to use Frauenfeld's myopia calculator? 
http://frauenfeldclinic.com/focal-calculator/calc.html

I have found the calculator very closely approximates my measured refraction using test lenses, as well as my OD measured perscription.

Tested my vision today, 18 February.
I can see the 20/40 line, all letters.

That means i have -2.

My last prescription was -2.5.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on February 21, 2013, 04:39:01 PM
It's very simple peterg. I found the method myself intuitively. Later i found it was also correct mathematically.

I am going to re-write some of the things i said before. Follow me carefully.

***************************************
According to the standard chart (not in absolute terms).
A person without glasses and with myopia of :

0 = clear image at infinity (nobody has this in absolute terms - nobody can see infinitely small details at infinite distances, at least not in the material universe)

0.25 = clear image at 4 meters.
0.5 = clear image at 2 meters.
0.75 = clear image at 1.3 meters.
1 = clear image at 1 meter.
1.25 = clear image at 80 centimeters
1.5 = clear image at 66 centimeters
1.75 = clear image at 57 centimeters
2 = clear image at 50 centimeters
2.25 = clear image at 44 centimeters
2.5 = clear image at 40 centimeters
2.75 = clear image at 36.36 centimeters
3 = clear image at 33 centimeters
3.25 = clear image at 30.7 centimeters
3.5 = clear image at 28.57 centimeters
3.75 = clear image at 26.66 centimeters
4 = clear image at 25 centimeters

***
You do the above math by dividing 1 with the diopter.
Example : A person with -4.25 myopia can see clear at 1 / 4.25 = 0.235  meaning 23.5 centimeters.

Now the Snellen chart shows the same thing. (not in absolute terms)

20/40 (or 6m/12m) literally means 20 divided by 40 (or 6 divided 12) which equals 0.5 meaning clear image at 50 centimeters (1 divided by 2 diopters = 50 centimeters) -> So you have -2 myopia if you read the 20/40.

20/30 literally means 20 divided by 30 which equals 0.66 meaning clear image at 66 centimeters (1 divided by 1.5 diopters = 66 centimeters) -> So you have -1.5 myopia if you read the 20/30.

20/25 literally means 20 divided by 25 which equals 0.8 meaning clear image at 80 centimeters (1 divided by 1.25 diopters = 80 centimeters) -> So you have -1.25 myopia if you read the 20/25.

20/20 simply means that you see the letters at 6 meters correctly, at that particular size. It also means that if you see the text easily you have in absolute terms a value closer to 0 diopters. If you see the text blurry but still can read some of the letters you have in absolute terms a maximum of -1.

Absolute terms means beyond the chart.
To clarify things please read this short article :
http://www.visionhelp.com/vh_about_13.html

Beyond 20/20 the chart shows the true power of the eye in absolute terms, since with 20/20 you have 0 diopters to a doctor's perspective but in reality the truth is you can never have 0.

In absolute terms :

20/15 = 1.3 meters of perfect image (0.75 myopia)
20/10 = 2 meters of perfect image (0.5 myopia)
20/8 = 2.5 meters of perfect image (0.4 myopia)

The hawk has 20/2 = 10 meters of perfect image (0.1 myopia)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_acuity

"If the optics of the eye were otherwise perfect, theoretically, acuity would be limited by pupil diffraction, which would be a diffraction-limited acuity of 0.4 minutes of arc (minarc) or 20/8 acuity. The smallest cone cells in the fovea have sizes corresponding to 0.4 minarc of the visual field, which also places a lower limit on acuity. The optimal acuity of 0.4 minarc or 20/8 can be demonstrated using a laser interferometer that bypasses any defects in the eye's optics and projects a pattern of dark and light bands directly on the retina. Laser interferometers are now used routinely in patients with optical problems, such as cataracts, to assess the health of the retina before subjecting them to surgery."

*****

20/5 has never been recorded in human vision.

20/8 has been, but is very rare. It is the best recorded human vision possible.

20/10 isn't even all that common. Is less common, but not all that rare.

20/15 is already better visual acuity than most will ever enjoy. Is even better and is quite common.

20/20 is the standard set as good, normal vision.

Hawks, have been measured at 20/2....hence the phrase, eyes like a hawk. A hawk has 20/2 vision , which is the best in the animal kingdom. 20/10 means you can see at 20 feet what a person with good normal vision can see only when they are 10 feet away.

*****

If you try my values in the calculator you will i see that my math is flawless. For example my edge of blue is now 50 centimeters. If i give a prescription of -2, the calculator will say it is a perfect prescription, according to the 20/20 system of course.

*****

When you naturally reach 20/8 there is no Over-prescription that could make your eyes work like a hawk, because of the human eye limitation. You need to change your eyes with robotic ones.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on February 21, 2013, 05:05:01 PM
Hi Steven,

Of course you are correct in many of these details. 

But equally, some things are not quite true.

For my human eyes - I am practical.  I don't ask for "perfect" vision, because it is not necessary for me.  In fact I fear a strong minus, worn all the time, because the eye adapts to it on a continuous basis - as it does to our "long-term near habit".

I agree that I *MUST* meet the reasonable standard that applies to all of us, and *MUST* personally verify it.  Thus for me, I use a minus lens and the 20/20 line to establish my self-measured refractive STATE.  I do this because I *MUST* be personally responsible to 1) exceed the 20/40 line, and eventually 2) Get close to passing the 20/20 line, and if a pilot, must exceed the 20/20 line.

Thus, if I were at 20/40, (read most of the letters), I would use my Snellen and the MINIMUM minus it takes to just clear the 20/20 line.  With respect, I think you would find that a -1.0 would do that.

Passing the 20/20 line (according to the ODs) means reading 1/2 the letters on the line.  Why is this important.  Because it means I "control" the entire "recovery" process.

I know EACH OF US will have his own idea on how to do this, and if you say you are -2.0 diopters myopic - then I believe you.

But if I were in a program, aimed at "recovery", I would have each person understand this modified measurement approach.  From long experience, it takes about nine months of steady wearing of a plus to get that +3/4 to +1.0 diopter change.  Truly not easy - but possible.

As always, I consider this self-measurement as critical to a person who truly must get to, and exceed the 20/20 line.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: peterg on February 25, 2013, 10:13:26 PM

20/40 (or 6m/12m) literally means 20 divided by 40 (or 6 divided 12) which equals 0.5 meaning clear image at 50 centimeters (1 divided by 2 diopters = 50 centimeters) -> So you have -2 myopia if you read the 20/40.


Thanks Steve for all your thorough number crunching. I've only posted the above 20/40 idea you present.

I know I am -1.25D as measured by an OD.   I am also -1.25D if I use test lenses and wish to obtain maximum accuity on my snellon, meaning I don't see blur even if I can't make out the 20/13 line.  I also use my edge of blur distance on the Frauenfeld calculator and get about -1.25 D.  I am generally 20/40 to 20/50 when I make no effort on my snellon.  That's why I wondered why you stated 20/40 made you a -2, given that I definately am not -2 (or worse) given I would approximate myself at 20/45 on the snellon "at rest". 
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on February 26, 2013, 04:59:33 AM
Hi Peter and Steven,

I think your ideas are important!    I know that the ODs feel that they *must* give you 20/13 vision - or they are incompetent.  Perhaps you judge them that way also. 

But when you study the effect of a -3 diopters lens on the natural eye - and the eye's response (it becomes myopic because of that minus lens) you must understand why *I* fear the wearing of a minus lens.   I would rather have 20/25 to 20/30 for life (and wear a plus correctly), than to get 20/13 with a -2.5 diopter minus lens.  But this is indeed a personal choice.

If you measure your refractive STATE my way, it would take about a - 3/4 to -1.0 to "just clear the 20/20 line.  Since my goal would be "close to" 20/20, then wearing a plus for all close work, and monitoring my *own* Snellen, I could judge my own success myeself.  Once above 20/40 - prevention is under my complete control. 

But equallly, I understand that all but the most motivated (pilots who MUST have 20/20) simply will not wear the plus with the force and intensity required to achieve that result.  That last "step" into 20/20, it exclusively a personal responsiblity - in my opinion.  I congratulate both of you on your success - and thank you for your review.

Otis



20/40 (or 6m/12m) literally means 20 divided by 40 (or 6 divided 12) which equals 0.5 meaning clear image at 50 centimeters (1 divided by 2 diopters = 50 centimeters) -> So you have -2 myopia if you read the 20/40.


Thanks Steve for all your thorough number crunching. I've only posted the above 20/40 idea you present.

I know I am -1.25D as measured by an OD.   I am also -1.25D if I use test lenses and wish to obtain maximum accuity on my snellon, meaning I don't see blur even if I can't make out the 20/13 line.  I also use my edge of blur distance on the Frauenfeld calculator and get about -1.25 D.  I am generally 20/40 to 20/50 when I make no effort on my snellon.  That's why I wondered why you stated 20/40 made you a -2, given that I definately am not -2 (or worse) given I would approximate myself at 20/45 on the snellon "at rest". 
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: johnlink on February 26, 2013, 10:35:35 AM

20/40 (or 6m/12m) literally means 20 divided by 40 (or 6 divided 12) which equals 0.5 meaning clear image at 50 centimeters (1 divided by 2 diopters = 50 centimeters) -> So you have -2 myopia if you read the 20/40.


While all the arithmetic is correct, I doubt the truth of the assertion that 20/40 is equivalent to being able to focus clearly at 0.5 meters. Why not 0.5 feet, or 0.5 inches? The fraction 20/40, if it can even be considered a fraction, is 20 feet/40 feet which is equal to the dimensionless number 0.5. So I see no reason whatsoever to expect that just clearing the 20/40 line implies myopia of -2.0.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: johnlink on February 26, 2013, 10:44:08 AM

I also use my edge of blur distance on the Frauenfeld calculator and get about -1.25 D.


What is the Frauenfeld calculator?
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on February 26, 2013, 11:41:20 AM
Hi John,
I personally admit that prevention is truly difficult.  I set my goal as always reading the 20/40 line.  I will use a -1/2 or a -1.0 to find out the minimum amout of minus it takes to just-clear the 20/20 line.  That will normally take about a -1.0 diopter lens.

But if I confirm that I pass all reaquired DMV tests (read 20/40) then why would I wear a -2.5 diopter lens all the time? 

This is they type of "error" an OD in an office will give you.  I consider it deadly - which is why I measure my refractive STATE myself.  I trust what *I* measure, more than an -2.5 diopter lens some OD might "prescribe".  But equally, and from past judgment, it does take a LONG TIME of consistent "plus wearing" to get your REFRACTIVE STATE to change by +3/4 to +1.0 diopters - there-by giving you 20/20 (but PERSONAL VERIFICATION.

I believe I had establishished and exact relationship, between visual acuity and refractive STATE.  At least I know what I am doing, and trust my results.  That is better solution - than to go to an OD, and get a destructively over-prescribed miinus from an OD. 

As an engineer, I finally concluded that no one is interested in my long-term vision - other than myself.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on February 26, 2013, 11:47:46 AM

Hi John,

Herer is the Frauenfeld Calculator:

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/myopia-calculator/

I obviously believe the Snellen/Trial-lens check - gives me best knowedge, and full control.

This includings obtaining $10 (minus) driving glasses if I have 20/50 to 20/60 vision.  (As a temporary measure - until I begin to exceed the 20/40 line.)

Since my intention is to change my refractive STATE by +1/2 diopter, and pass the 20/40 line, I truly do not want to spend $200 for glasses - that I will not need anymore when I exceed the 20/40 line. This knowledge and ability - gives *me* control of my visual future.



I also use my edge of blur distance on the Frauenfeld calculator and get about -1.25 D.


What is the Frauenfeld calculator?
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: johnlink on February 26, 2013, 11:52:38 AM

Herer is the Frauenfeld Calculator:

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/myopia-calculator/


Thank you!
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: johnlink on February 26, 2013, 11:59:05 AM
Actually the link above goes to a page that has a link to the calculator. HERE is where the calculator is found:

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/focal-calculator/calc.html
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on March 01, 2013, 07:24:58 AM
Hi John,

I often dreamed of a true prevention (recovery) study, where the person himself was taught how to 1) Meaure his visual acuity, and the 2) Accurately measure (to 1/4 diopter) his refractive status.  I know this will take a wise an motivated person - who will have the courage to make these measurements - but here is how *I* do it.  This simply by-passes the OD in  his office.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrfuLuibclY

This process is NOT "anti-medicine", but rather it is a desire on my part to take PREVENTIVE measures before I go to an ophthalmologist.  This I "divide", responsibility.  I am repsonsible for ALWAYS checking my visual acuity - to make certain I always PASS the 20/40 line.  (I know if I go  to an OD, I will get a -1 to -3 diopter prescription - which just makes matters far worse).  By personally measuring my refractive STATE myself (say at -1.0 diopters), I can simply order the lens from Zennioptical for $10, and AVOID WEARING IT - EXCEPT FOR DRIVING A CAR.  But I would enspire myself to wear the plus, until I began to read the 20/25 to 20/20 line (refractive state = zero).  That is why I consider this "measurement system" the best - and most accurate.


Actually the link above goes to a page that has a link to the calculator. HERE is where the calculator is found:

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/focal-calculator/calc.html
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on March 03, 2013, 08:09:11 AM

Thanks Steve for all your thorough number crunching. I've only posted the above 20/40 idea you present.

I know I am -1.25D as measured by an OD.   I am also -1.25D if I use test lenses and wish to obtain maximum acuity on my snellon, meaning I don't see blur even if I can't make out the 20/13 line.  I also use my edge of blur distance on the Frauenfeld calculator and get about -1.25 D.  I am generally 20/40 to 20/50 when I make no effort on my snellon.  That's why I wondered why you stated 20/40 made you a -2, given that I definately am not -2 (or worse) given I would approximate myself at 20/45 on the snellon "at rest". 

See This :

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20120316-baseball-vision-when-20-20-eyesight-just-wont-cut-it.ece


In absolute terms 20/40 is -2 and you see perfectly clear images at maximum of 50 centimeters.
In absolute terms 20/50 is -2.5 and you see perfectly clear images at maximum of 40 centimeters.

20/20 in absolute terms is -1 and you can see perfectly clear images at maximum of 1 meter.

The maximum you can get is 20/8 that means -0.4 myopia and allows you to see perfectly clear images at maximum 2.5 meters and of course clean the Snellen line at 20/8.

I don't know what is the minimum hyperopia that is physically possible by the eye.
Does anyone know ?

While all the arithmetic is correct, I doubt the truth of the assertion that 20/40 is equivalent to being able to focus clearly at 0.5 meters. Why not 0.5 feet, or 0.5 inches? The fraction 20/40, if it can even be considered a fraction, is 20 feet/40 feet which is equal to the dimensionless number 0.5. So I see no reason whatsoever to expect that just clearing the 20/40 line implies myopia of -2.0.

The Snellen chart is 6 meters away but the 20/20 line has such big letters that you can see it from 6 meters. If you clear the 20/20 line you have -1 myopia.

The first step is 20/8 because that is the limit of the human eye.

All you need to do to reach 20/8 is to use a very strong plus until you reach -0.4.
But be careful not to push your eye to become too much hyperopic.

Please read this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_acuity#Visual_acuity_expression

20/40 is same as 6/12 and equals 0.50 in decimal system.

Only LogMAR : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LogMAR_chart considers 20/20 as 0. Plus values as vision loss and negative values as better than normal sight. But it is not used clinically.

http://www.optometricmanagement.com/articleviewer.aspx?articleid=71635
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: johnlink on March 03, 2013, 08:16:15 AM
The Snellen chart is 6 meters away but the 20/20 line has such big letters that you can see it from 6 meters. If you clear the 20/20 line you have -1 myopia.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Quote
20/40 is same as 6/12 and equals 0.50 in decimal system.

Yes but that 0.50 is a dimensionless number. It is NOT a number of diopters.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimensionless_number for an explanation of dimensionless numbers.

See http://forum.gettingstronger.org/index.php/topic,443.0.html for a description of the relationship between visual acuity and refractive state.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on March 03, 2013, 10:11:52 AM
Hi Steven,

First of all - congratulations on verifying you can read the 20/40 line with no minus lens on your face.  I know you "came back" from -2.5 diopters IIRC.

To me, that is a major goal in my life.  I truly hate the minus lens. But equally I value the knowledge of how to obtain it from Zenni, and use it with wisdom - when necessary.

Let me respond to your question.

Steven>  I don't know what is the minimum hyperopia that is physically possible by the eye.
Does anyone know ?

Otis> Yes - it is zero diopters - measured with a Snellen and trial-lens kit.

Otis





Thanks Steve for all your thorough number crunching. I've only posted the above 20/40 idea you present.

I know I am -1.25D as measured by an OD.   I am also -1.25D if I use test lenses and wish to obtain maximum acuity on my snellon, meaning I don't see blur even if I can't make out the 20/13 line.  I also use my edge of blur distance on the Frauenfeld calculator and get about -1.25 D.  I am generally 20/40 to 20/50 when I make no effort on my snellon.  That's why I wondered why you stated 20/40 made you a -2, given that I definately am not -2 (or worse) given I would approximate myself at 20/45 on the snellon "at rest". 

See This :

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20120316-baseball-vision-when-20-20-eyesight-just-wont-cut-it.ece


In absolute terms 20/40 is -2 and you see perfectly clear images at maximum of 50 centimeters.
In absolute terms 20/50 is -2.5 and you see perfectly clear images at maximum of 40 centimeters.

20/20 in absolute terms is -1 and you can see perfectly clear images at maximum of 1 meter.

The maximum you can get is 20/8 that means -0.4 myopia and allows you to see perfectly clear images at maximum 2.5 meters and of course clean the Snellen line at 20/8.

I don't know what is the minimum hyperopia that is physically possible by the eye.
Does anyone know ?

While all the arithmetic is correct, I doubt the truth of the assertion that 20/40 is equivalent to being able to focus clearly at 0.5 meters. Why not 0.5 feet, or 0.5 inches? The fraction 20/40, if it can even be considered a fraction, is 20 feet/40 feet which is equal to the dimensionless number 0.5. So I see no reason whatsoever to expect that just clearing the 20/40 line implies myopia of -2.0.

The Snellen chart is 6 meters away but the 20/20 line has such big letters that you can see it from 6 meters. If you clear the 20/20 line you have -1 myopia.

The first step is 20/8 because that is the limit of the human eye.

All you need to do to reach 20/8 is to use a very strong plus until you reach -0.4.
But be careful not to push your eye to become too much hyperopic.

Please read this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_acuity#Visual_acuity_expression

20/40 is same as 6/12 and equals 0.50 in decimal system.

Only LogMAR : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LogMAR_chart considers 20/20 as 0. Plus values as vision loss and negative values as better than normal sight. But it is not used clinically.

http://www.optometricmanagement.com/articleviewer.aspx?articleid=71635

Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on March 03, 2013, 02:37:44 PM
Thank you Otis for the answer. You remember correctly.

If you as a young kid take a small text and put it very close to your eyes, like closer then 5 cm you will start to see that as you get closer to 1 cm the image will blur almost completely. If you have myopia like me you can bring it up to 2 cm before it goes all blurry. So there is a physical limit in both looking up close and look up far away.

Quote
As in a photographic lens, visual acuity is affected by the size of the pupil. Optical aberrations of the eye that decrease visual acuity are at a maximum when the pupil is largest (about 8 mm), which occurs in low-light conditions. When the pupil is small (1–2 mm), image sharpness may be limited by diffraction of light by the pupil (see diffraction limit). Between these extremes is the pupil diameter that is generally best for visual acuity in normal, healthy eyes; this tends to be around 3 or 4 mm.

If the optics of the eye were otherwise perfect, theoretically, acuity would be limited by pupil diffraction, which would be a diffraction-limited acuity of 0.4 minutes of arc (minarc) or 20/8 acuity. The smallest cone cells in the fovea have sizes corresponding to 0.4 minarc of the visual field, which also places a lower limit on acuity. The optimal acuity of 0.4 minarc or 20/8 can be demonstrated using a laser interferometer that bypasses any defects in the eye's optics and projects a pattern of dark and light bands directly on the retina. Laser interferometers are now used routinely in patients with optical problems, such as cataracts, to assess the health of the retina before subjecting them to surgery.

a) So if you look far away you are limited by pupil diffraction & the size of the cone cells in the fovea. Maximum you can achieve is 20/8.
b) If you look very close you are probably again limited by the exact same 2 things because otherwise at 0 diopters you could see well no matter how close you put the text. (infinitely close and that is not true, because you can't see that close even if you are very young.)

Or it may be caused by the current elongation of the eye. When i had -4 i could see very close things even more clear than i do now.

But a perfectly healthy eye, can't see if you put the text extremely close to the eye.

The lens of the eye also seems to get harder as time passes according to some people. (Presbyopia)

Now to answer johnlink.

If you read the 20/40 line you will see everything clear at 50 cm (computer text for example). If you go further than 50 cm you will start to lose clarity rapidly.

Same applies for all values. If you don't believe then go and test it yourself. It always works the same. It's centimeters 100%.

I am going to also reply in your topic.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: johnlink on March 03, 2013, 03:07:47 PM
If you read the 20/40 line you will see everything clear at 50 cm (computer text for example). If you go further than 50 cm you will start to lose clarity rapidly.

Same applies for all values. If you don't believe then go and test it yourself. It always works the same. It's centimeters 100%.
Steven, I understand and completely agree with what you've written in this post.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on May 10, 2013, 03:28:46 PM
Tested my eyes again, 11 May 2013
I can see 20/40.

That means i finally got to -2 from -2.5.

I use a +2 that i try to use all the time.

What was the + power needed to reach 20/20 ?
What about 20/15, 20/10, 20/8 ?
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on May 10, 2013, 04:10:48 PM
Dear Steven,

Subject: Congratulations.

Remarks:  After my vision was destroyed by 1) My own bad habits as a child and 2) A over-prescribed minus lens, I could only DREAM of reading this Snellen at 20/40 - naked eye.

There is a great power in being in personal control of your distant vision - and meeting and exceeding an OBJECTIVE REQUIREMENT.  This is what a good scientists will feel - when he is successful.  I hope you have a bright light on that Snellen and at 20 feet - for total CONSISTENCY.  20/40 passes all the DMV tests - in fact some States allow 20/50 vision.  I personally would not drive a car - until I saw and personally exceeded the 20/40 line.  I would emphasize that, in wearing the +2.0 for all close work - you are doing everything right.  That gets your "near" work, into the "distance" - with "pushing print" and reading at the self-determined, "just blur" point.

Now the difficult part.  To continue this success, and get to 20/30 and 20/25 - you must continue to do this.  From past experience, and much scientific data - it will take another nine months to get there.  I think it is highly worth it!  I would be proud to do it, as an organized scientific study.

The "plus power" required is limited to you reading at the "just blur" point.  Given your Snellen value (at this time) my estimate would be that the plus you have is correct.  Presuming that you begin to get close to 20/20 (refractive state = zero), you could then increase the "plus power" to +2.5 diopters, and maybe +2.75.  But that depends on you reaching 20/25 to 20/20 in the next six to nine months.  The really hard part of all this - is the dedication and time it takes to do it.  I can only encourage you to make this a "steady habit" and be patient.

Otis



Tested my eyes again, 11 May 2013
I can see 20/40.

That means i finally got to -2 from -2.5.

I use a +2 that i try to use all the time.

What was the + power needed to reach 20/20 ?
What about 20/15, 20/10, 20/8 ?
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on May 11, 2013, 05:58:23 AM
Hi Steven,

Subject: Confirming your previous status of from -4.0 to -3.75 diopters (probably 20/200 on a Snellen chart).

This was one of Steven's first post, about Dec 2012.  I know how difficult is to get to OBJECTIVELY CONFIRMED (BY YOURSELF) 20/40 VISION. 

Almost EVERY OD will insist that is IMPOSSIBLE to get out of even -1.5 diotpters (about 20/60 on your Snellen).

Steven might be exceptional in his success in this amount of time.  I don't know.  I restrict myself to advocacy - at 20/60 or so on your Snellen.

My further remark is that LAST DIOPTER, from 20/40 to 20/20 - is the hardest and longest.  But I congratulate Steven on his obvious success - to pass all required DMV test.  I had not realized that at one point Steve had a -4.0 diopter prescription.

Otis


Hi Otis.

My current prescription is -3 left eye -3.75 right eye (which i feel is over prescription now).
I no longer have -4 in both eyes.

Right now i am reading this forum and the book.

You said i should go for a -2 to start with for long distance. I was thinking more of a -1.5.
I will order the next week at my local glass technician a pair of -1.5 for both eyes, since i am in Europe and the lenses i get from him are good quality from a Japanese firm.

Yes it will cost me more then the site you suggested but i can try everything here.

So:
1. I should use the -1.5 or -2 only for long distance and i must try to focus on things that are just outside my visual range ( a little blurry ). Correct ?

2. When using "push print" i use no glasses and when the image becomes too clear and my arm too short for the book i should use a +1, then +1.5, +2, +2.5 etc. as my vision improves.

3. Will using a very strong plus all day, no matter the activity, reverse my myopia much faster or will the eye just ignore the effort and stay the same ?

4. Will using a -1.5 or -2 while looking in the distance make my eyes more myopic or will my vision improve as long as i focus on semi-blurry spots ?

Thank you.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on May 12, 2013, 03:52:05 AM
Thank you Otis.

I would say my success in such a short time is because :

a) I never used a minus lens after committing to improve my eyesight. ( only a half prescription, very rarely in urgent cases.)

b) I tried to use a +2 whenever i could.

Now, if i could have avoided all computer work and if i used 24/7 a plus lens i am sure i would have reached the targets even faster or i would have improved my vision even more.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: OtisBrown on May 12, 2013, 04:12:06 AM
Hi Steven,
Subject: Now that you have verified 20/40 visual acuity on your Snellen...

Let me say the following:

1) When a person tells me he has -4.0 diopters of myopia - I simply do not know what to say.
2) But when he finds he can read the 20/60 line, then I will "talk".
3) I avoid making "claims" for the most part, but if a person has strong (long-term) resolve, and "gets the idea", then I think he can get out of 20/60 vision - objectively.
4) I love objective science, but I have a hard time "talking" to most people about this subject.  I do avoid "selling" anything - and make all this analysis available for free.
5) I wish to save the "next engineer" all the trouble I went through to learn the importance of "educated self-control", and self-measurement.
6) It is incredible to me that you got to 20/40 from -4.0 diopters, since Dec 2012.
7) You learned how to read your Snellen (brightly lit) and judge the "improvement" by hand-holding a minus lens.  That to me that  is "empowering", in the sense that you can estimate your refractive state - yourself. (Avoid involvement of an OD - who had NO INTEREST in any of this work.)
+++++
THE FUTURE?
I think that, since you "came back" from -4.0 diopters, the LAST one or two diopters will be the most difficult.  This is now, "all personal objective  judgment" on your part.
Leadership is *me* wearing a plus lens for all *my* close work, and self-measurement of my refractive status.  Leadership for *you* is doing the same thing.  If you can continue to wear the +2.0 for "just close work", for the next six to nine months, I think you will improve that "last diopter" - objectively.
I never judge my vision by "thinking" it has improved by "just looking".  No - I read my Snellen.  That is the only way.  The term, 20/20, does not mean all that much.  What you actually read will be from 20/25 to 20/15 - thus it is impossible for ANY OD TO SAY THIS OR DO THIS.  You must just check yourself.
As always, this is a very slow process.  You are the ONLY PERSON WHO "WINS".  So my request is that you continue to post your ideas, concepts, and your dogged persistence in wearing that plus for all computer and reading work that we are all forced to do in our "modern society".
Thanks for making yourself successful!
Otis



Thank you Otis.

I would say my success in such a short time is because :

a) I never used a minus lens after committing to improve my eyesight. ( only a half prescription, very rarely in urgent cases.)

b) I tried to use a +2 whenever i could.

Now, if i could have avoided all computer work and if i used 24/7 a plus lens i am sure i would have reached the targets even faster or i would have improved my vision even more.
Title: Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
Post by: Steven on May 12, 2013, 11:19:48 AM
Thank you again very much Otis.

You are my inspiration that made everything possible.

I am still working on my easy to understand guide, based on my experience in reversing the eye negative status.

I will post this guide as soon as i finish it.