Getting Stronger: Discussion Forum

Discussion Topics => Rehabilitation => Topic started by: videogamer on December 29, 2013, 10:50:01 PM

Title: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: videogamer on December 29, 2013, 10:50:01 PM
Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours? I can feel my eyes getting strained. I put on +6 n stare into nothingness straight ahead, the wall which is a blur. Whats ur opinion on what i been doin. And what techniques do u think work best
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: CapitalPrince on December 30, 2013, 05:03:08 AM

you shouldn't watch tv for a few hours. palming is great. putting a warm towel over your eyes is also very nice. you shouldn't abuse your eyes more. almost all of us here are because we failed to take care of our eyes.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: Alex_Myopic on December 30, 2013, 11:07:04 AM
In the "myopia manual" there are studies that suggest that wearing plus lenses over +5 to +6D can even make myopia worse. I think that when palming the accommodation muscles relax as seeing in the infinite.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: videogamer on January 01, 2014, 09:52:02 PM
Why does +5 make u more myopic? Whats correct way to palm ur eyes.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: FonkStreet on January 02, 2014, 01:52:31 PM
In the "myopia manual" there are studies that suggest that wearing plus lenses over +5 to +6D can even make myopia worse. I think that when palming the accommodation muscles relax as seeing in the infinite.

what page please?
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: OtisBrown on January 02, 2014, 04:15:55 PM
Hi Fonk,

Here is the manual:

http://www.myopia-manual.de/

Enjoy,
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: OtisBrown on January 02, 2014, 04:31:55 PM
Hi Video,

That is just bullshit - about the plus lens "causing" myopia.  Here is what the scientific data shows about the "correct use" of a plus.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wildsoet/images/pos_lens_induce_hyperopia.swf

Thus, a "correctly worn plus" (providing you still can read the 20/30 line) can produce a change of status - in the positive direction.  This means that the plus (when used for all near work) can have the effect of SLOW CLEARING of your Snellen.

The plus does not cause negative-change in refractive status.

The minus can induce negative-change in the refractive status of the natural eye - or in effect causing more myopia.  The plus does not "cause myopia".


Why does +5 make u more myopic? Whats correct way to palm ur eyes.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: FonkStreet on January 03, 2014, 08:33:59 AM
Hi Otis, thank you for the link.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 03, 2014, 10:26:40 AM
Hi FonkStreet,

search the pdf for "plus".  There is a researcher that strongly believes about the good of plus below +3 and some studies which show that plus can deteriorate myopia when above +6.
With +6D lenses has nothing to do with seeing at the edge of blur even in an emmetropic eye even at very close distance.

Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: FonkStreet on January 03, 2014, 02:38:04 PM
Hi Alex, I have not found the studies in the PDF.

Quote
With +6D lenses has nothing to do with seeing at the edge of blur even in an emmetropic eye even at very close distance.

I am not agree with you. An emmetropic eye with +6D, at a little less than 16 cm (1/6), are at the edge of blur.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: OtisBrown on January 03, 2014, 04:43:50 PM
HI Fonk,

You are correct.  A normal eye with a refractive state of 0.0 diopters, will see clearly at 6 six inches (and closer). If the person has an accommodation range of 4 diopters, that person will be able to read a 16 cm and at four diopters closer.

I think Alex is an engineer.  With all due respect -perhaps Alex did not understand the question.


Hi Alex, I have not found the studies in the PDF.

Quote
With +6D lenses has nothing to do with seeing at the edge of blur even in an emmetropic eye even at very close distance.

I am not agree with you. An emmetropic eye with +6D, at a little less than 16 cm (1/6), are at the edge of blur.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: OtisBrown on January 03, 2014, 07:26:53 PM
Hi Tom,

Let me clarify one point:

Tom>  For me, the real concern of wearing very strong plus lens is ophthalmological. For those of you wearing plus lens, you should be able to feel a pull exerting on your eyes when you're looking far. For some of you, you will just have try a +6D yourself to feel the intensity of that pull.

Otis> From everything I have presented, I do not recommend the wearing of +6 diopter lens.   It just blurs everything - beyond 6 inches.  For a person who can still read 20/50 to 20/40 (refractive state -0.75 diopters) it is entirely possible to wear a +2.25 to +2.75 diopter plus lens - ad read at 18 inches.  Further, as you stated some might fell some "pulling" as they read at that distance. I personally have no "pulling", only a felling of "relaxation", and comfort.  If I look in the distance, I of course will see blur.  But then I remove the plus - an my distant vision is very clear.

Otis> But I am always objective about this work.  Perhaps some get "headaches", and others might complain of "double-vision", but to me, preserving my distant vision is worth it.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: FonkStreet on January 04, 2014, 04:07:36 AM
Quote from: TomLu
Months before I was scavenging studies on myopia. There is indeed one study on tree shrew showing that +6D to +10D worsen myopia (i.e., does not compete with hyperopic defocus induced by minus lens).

Hi TomLu,

Does not compete with hyperopic defocus does not mean worsen myopia. In your study, the difference of refractive state between, the full time wearing of -5D and the wearing of -5D interrupted by only 45 minutes of +6D or +10D, is not significant.

And the number of subjects (n=5) in each groups is not enough. The time of myopic defocus is not enough either.

Many studies show that the eyes can respond to strong defocus and shorten.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 04, 2014, 04:32:14 AM
@FonkStreet @OtisBrown

With all due respect too but I haven't specified the centimeters. I wrote "even at very close distance". I believe that reading at 16cm is somehow impractical. Even if someone does this when reading a book then most likely is that he puts too much pressure in his neck and back At 16cm then only one or two cm play a major role and he can be out of the edge of blur or having no blur at all while reading from top to the bottom of the page with his head steady or if he moves his head a little away/near from 16cm.

Also reading at 16cm even with plus does cause great angle of convergence, the same as with no plus at the same distance.

Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: Alex_Myopic on January 04, 2014, 05:10:33 AM
Hi Alex, I have not found the studies in the PDF.

Hi FonkStreet,

in the myopia manual January edition,

page 81 in the book (93 in the pdf automatic numeration)
"In other words, plus lenses were working in the opposite direction as excessive accommodation or
negative lenses, as long as their power did not exceed a certain threshold."
"Results of by Metiapally and McBrien showed191: "Constant +4 D lens wear produced
+6.9 D relative hyperopia, while +6 and +9.5 D lens wear did not induce hyperopia"

page 82
"c) A positive replacement lens (+ 3, + 4, + 5 D) resulted in about half of the cases in myopia,
in the other half myopia was prevented. The + 6 D and the + 10 D lenses, however, were
ineffective in blocking the myopia."

page 92
"Excessive use of plus lenses, however, which results in a degraded image quality results often in
the onset or the progression of myopia (result c)).

Note:
Obviously, it depends on the duration and the strength of accommodation, and the duration and
extent of degraded image quality.
Therefore people who are most of the day doing near work with plus lenses or plus additions
which still give them a perfect image should not be at great risk by the occasionally reduced image
quality at distant vision with these plus glasses or plus additions. In this case, there would be no
excessive accommodation, and only a short time of reduced image quality."


page 53
"Ophthalmologist Viikari summarizes her lifelong experience by the recommendation of additions
of even as high as + 3.0 D"
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: CapitalPrince on January 04, 2014, 08:05:28 AM
so the conclusion is that strong (+6D+) plus lenses are not neccessary and the common belief that eye elongation is irreversible is false?
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: FonkStreet on January 04, 2014, 10:03:45 AM
Hi Alex, thank you for the quote of the PDF.

Quote
Believe it or not, 45 minutes is actually very significant for tree shrews. This is because myopic defocus signals are much stronger than hyperopic defocus

NO!

In your study, there is not myopic defocus because "Tree shrews are ∼20 D hyperopic when their eyes open."

So, even with a + 10D lens, a tree shrew eye is not in myopic defocus!

This study is useless for us.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: FonkStreet on January 04, 2014, 10:06:52 AM
Quote
the common belief that eye elongation is irreversible is false

This common belief is shit.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: CapitalPrince on January 04, 2014, 10:44:14 AM
the only study about axial length was. http://www.iovs.org/content/51/12/6262.full.
From 60 min defocus there was a mean -13 micrometer change in axial length. since a 3D myope has an eye that is 1mm longer, if we assume linear progression it is expected to take 77 hours of defocus to achieve 0D.

This study was too short to have to be truly conclusive.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: OtisBrown on January 30, 2014, 07:04:50 PM
Hi Tom,

Otis> This is indeed the "show stopper", in any MEDICAL "human experiment" - on ignorant people, i.e., "patient".

Tom>  Oh there are many of them. But not really useful to us anyway. In case you are wondering why it's so short, it's because of the ethical guideline on human research. Note that even though the change are small. They are consistent across the subjects too. It's hard to even get a study like this.

Otis> The other issue is the FEAR a person might have about wearing the plus (when at 20/40 to 20/50, and -1.0 diopters).  We have seen many people, recoil in fear, if it is suggested that they take plus-prevention seriously.  I don't blame them - as there are many reasons a person will "think up" his own reasons to "fear the plus".  Further, most people simply do not value their distant vision ENOUGH to truly make the commitment.

Otis> But equally, we know that some people "figure out", that it would be wise to make the commitment to wearing the plus (at 20/40, and -1 diopter), and managed to slowly change their refractive STATE, in a positive direction.  But no one in medicine and ever do this - for as you say - the "ethical considerations".

Otis> But I always maintain that a person, like Todd, and pilots, who MUST go from -1 diopter to +1/2 diopters (because their desired professional career is worth $100,000 per year), manage to do it by their own wisdom.  But this is not a medical solution at all.

Otis> But for fear of law suits, no OD or MD will be willing to even suggest this possibility.  Further, to make it work - means technical knowledge and persistence.  If successful - the OD will not care about it - but you will.
Title: Re: Whats quickest way to relax your eyes full after watching tv for few hours?
Post by: videogamer on January 30, 2014, 11:19:20 PM
Im still unsure about the best plus to wear to get my eye to shorten the fastest. I have -3.25 vision. So would that mean a +1 or +3 or +6 is ideal. I understand w my +6 i cant see unless my iphone is right in my face; so lets say my experiment was not to focus on anything close enough to read but instead im just going to stare at a tv 10 feet away. Although +1 is less blurry than the others it is still blurry so my question is, if i wore each lens for 3 hours watching tv at 10 feet away, which + would cause the  eyes to shorten the most? Keep in my im already -3.25. ( i realize everyone will have different opinions but im still very interested in seeing the opinions you guys have and why. And if anyone in this forum ever tested there own eyes using different + id love to know there own findings.