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21
Rehabilitation / Re: Can the eye grow shorter?
« Last post by Alex_Myopic on November 24, 2016, 12:10:39 PM »
@j23
Doctors who prescribe for presbyopia of course don't tell the patients to print push so of course there is limited by chance or no hyperopic  myopic defocus.
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Rehabilitation / Re: Can the eye grow shorter?
« Last post by OtisBrown on November 24, 2016, 12:01:30 PM »
I have a doubt about PLUS
Could anybody help on this ?

What is the answer for axial length of 50+ seniors ? They take stronger and stronger plus not for any prevention but for presyobia.
Then by using such plus (+1 , +2 or even more) they should acquire pretty quickly hyperopia ?

So are they too old to grow the eye shorter (less elastic) ? Or they do not properly wear PLUS (not to the limits which triggers change).

Hi J23

1) No one measures a "length". That is a myth.  Do not get caught in that error of thinking.  People objectively measure a refractive STATE - only.

2) Are you 50+ years.  You are not?  Why do you bother with a hypothetical question?

3) I wear a plus for prevention.  My distant vision is in the range of 20/20 to 20/15, self checked.  My refractive STATE is in the range of +1/2 to +3/4 diopters. That is NECESSARY for very clear distant vision.

4) I have no problems with my refractive state.  I do not see why you would have a problem.


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Rehabilitation / Re: New Prescription- added cylinder back on - Update
« Last post by OtisBrown on November 24, 2016, 11:57:23 AM »
Hi J23 -

I think our innocent question, "Can you cure myopia", leads to consternation in an OD and MD - mind.

They will never talk to you about wise wearing of a plus - when you can still read the 20/40 line (self-measure -1 diopter).
THEY would measure -2.5 diopters !!  (This is why I self-measure.)

But it is worse than that - they are angry that you think you can prevent - and they KNOW you can not do that.

Here is a video that reviews that "medical anger" - that prevents any intellectual discussion about the need
to wear a "preventive plus" when you could still get out of it - with a plus.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo7v7iOfsapIH0o51RWIwgw

How would I have "reacted" - if I  had been presented with science and facts - when I was at 20/40, and -1 diopter).

Quite frankly - I do not know! 

But I do know - that if science were presented to me (as I now know it), I would have understood that at 20/40, I had an "either-or" choice to make.

Either I took long-term plus wearing very seriously, and stayed bettter than 20/40, or I would LOSE my distant vision at a rate
of -1/2 diopter per year - FOR EACH YEAR IN SCHOOL.

That is more than a warning.  It is scientific truth. 

So you hate the idea of long-term plus wearing (when at 20/40). The say bye  bye to your distant vision - permanently.

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Rehabilitation / Re: Can the eye grow shorter?
« Last post by j23 on November 23, 2016, 02:07:49 AM »
I have a doubt about PLUS
Could anybody help on this ?

What is the answer for axial length of 50+ seniors ? They take stronger and stronger plus not for any prevention but for presyobia.
Then by using such plus (+1 , +2 or even more) they should acquire pretty quickly hyperopia ?

So are they too old to grow the eye shorter (less elastic) ? Or they do not properly wear PLUS (not to the limits which triggers change).

 
25
Rehabilitation / Re: New Prescription- added cylinder back on - Update
« Last post by j23 on November 23, 2016, 01:33:33 AM »
...
I've currently made 3 kids in my locality ditch their -0.5 lens with very recent prescription. Asking them to wear plus is however difficult. Happy if they get out of school without a minus. They can take their own decision for wearing plus after 18.

I do not know how old are the kids you mentioned , but I am sure by not wearing they will not recover (if it was the case everybody would recover :) automatically). Maybe if their parents  could access http://www.preventmyopia.org/ videos this would help to understand.

When I was 14 years old  - I got -0.5 (matching my cycloplegic refractive error ) - at my country we do not go to optometrist but an eye doctor so then they are able to measure true error. I was never wearing but at the same time I did not change my habits for computers and near work.
It is alawys going only worse then. My doughter who was so clever that when first diagnosed for myopia at 10 years old - she had -1,5 -2.0 S.E with some astigmatism (cycloplegic refractive error). As she is reading a lot, and playing computer it was not going to improve any better (after a year of not using it was slightly worse, especially weaker eye).

So not wearing is not a cure.

For plus wearing - you may be correct that taking on cylinder should help PLUS teraphy - as then the eye is not confused if there is focus or not.
I have this very often - if the eye is strained to its limits to see double or distorted image via 1 eye (after PLUS wearing) as my cycloplegic cylinder is -0.75 in weaker eye. If I did not progress soon then I will consider this modification on myself.


My starting prescription  was-
1) right eye- -2 sph -1.75 cyl
2) left eye      -2 sph  -0.75 cyl

...
Yesterday went to optometrist and got a new prescript
1) right eye- -0.75 sph -.75 cyl
2) left eye      -0.75 sph  -0.5 cyl
with this i could see 20/20 on sellen, both eyes open,

It is very misleading to measure both eyes open then the better eye gives most of the vision. So maybe the progress was from what Otis used to mention - overprescribed in the first place, and then you underprescribe ?


I am sceptical that you are able to maintain this pace of progress. Maybe at start it was possible, but in the long run rather .25 improvement per 3 months is a reasonable expectation. Comparing this to other activities like running - if you had never run, then after some weeks you can be noticably better until you reach your 100% activated physical limits. .





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Rehabilitation / Re: How to "deal" with an arrogant optometrist?
« Last post by OtisBrown on November 12, 2016, 07:25:34 AM »
I  have no intention to "fight" with an OD in his office.  There is no point to doing that.

The OD has no chance to help you - and that is the simple truth about optometry.
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Rehabilitation / Re: For the beginner - Scientific truth - trumps the minus lens.
« Last post by OtisBrown on November 12, 2016, 07:20:38 AM »
Is ANYONE successful - when he accepts that long-term plus wearing - is required.

Here are remarks from my nephew, Keith B., who heard what I said about the need to 1) Never wear a minus lens 2) Wear a plus for all close work - during college, 3) Always check and pass the 20/40 line, and 4) The plus is safe - and the minus lens is dangerous - as science shows it to be.  Keith is now over  50 years old.  I admire his success !

=======

From Dr. Raphaelson's experience with, "The Printer's Son", (Chapter 3), it has become clear that you must understand the bad results that occur when you use the negative lens. More than this, Jacob's analysis demonstrated that even a completely dedicated eye doctor can not overcome the popular misconceptions that exists in the public's mind about eye doctors and the use of the preventive lens.

I made a major effort to help my niece and nephew. They developed a clear understanding of the problem of nearsightedness and the type or solution that could be expected. I believe that providing them with a "fighting chance" to defeat the problem is better than providing no chance at all. Both used the plus lens and retained clear distant vision without prescription lenses. They understood that it would take long-term commitment to achieve the desired result. I asked my nephew to write a short note to describe his own effort and outcome as he worked to maintain clear distant vision through college.

FOUR YEARS OF COLLEGE WEARING A PLUS LENS

Dear Uncle,          February 19, 1990

     Thank you very much for the book, "How to Avoid
Nearsightedness".  I got it yesterday after I came back from the
weekend.  I am looking forward to reading it soon, but for now I
have a great deal of school work to read.

     I would imagine you'll be pleased to have me tell you that
one of the first things I did after opening your book was to check
my eyes with the eye chart.  I am able to read the 20/20 line on
the eye-chart. I have been using my drug store plus lenses most
of the time now.  I have always passed the driver's license eye
test.

     I use these glasses nearly 100 percent of the time when I
read text books and use them for about 70 percent of the total
reading I do.  I started using them as much as possible again
because, at the end of last semester my sight was pretty bad (I
didn't check them on a chart).  I am lucky to have an uncle who
showed me back in eighth grade that I could prevent my
nearsightedness.

     One thing college has taught me is to listen to others and
then use or adapt methods to work for me.  In the last few years I
have had a great deal more reading work to do. If I don't use the
magnifying lenses I notice fairly quickly that my sight starts to
deteriorate.  Then I realize it's time to do something to stop
that process.

     At the moment, I am wearing the magnifying lens because I
know what it does for my vision.  Thanks for taking the time to
tell me how to avoid a situation, wearing glasses at all times for
the rest of my life, that I would find unpleasant, and for sending
me a copy of your book so I can learn more in-depth about the
methods I am using.

          Keith
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Rehabilitation / Re: For the beginner - Scientific truth - trumps the minus lens.
« Last post by OtisBrown on November 12, 2016, 07:13:55 AM »
What do the ODs KNOW - and refuse to talk about?

It is the proven -1/2 diopter per year - if you even START wearing a strong minus lens - when you still have 20/40. The above science - shows how bad the minus lens - based on science, not on "medical opinion".

How do they excuse this ignorance?  The simply say that this, -1/2 diopter per year (proven) .... is NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY!

By what "rationality" do they reject this science. They just simply say, "... it is all  YOUR, bad heredity".

This is indeed a tragic "sucker punch", when you EXPECTED THEM  to tell you scientific truth - and encourage you to protect your distant vision for life - even if you must do it yourself.

But the requirement for long-term plus wearing (scientific proof), is very serious.  Very few people are willing to do this - for themselves.  The proof comes from a 5 year study with children - who wore the plus - and saved their vision.

For a mature adult - who can understand this issue - results can be much better.
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Rehabilitation / Re: For the beginner - Scientific truth - trumps the minus lens.
« Last post by OtisBrown on November 12, 2016, 07:08:28 AM »
For me - perhaps alone - that proven dynamic behavior of all natural eyes - is final.

What concerns me - is the fact that NO OD will "volunteer" this information to you - when you NEED IT THE MOST.

Our eyes do not "become defective" because we change our "average" value of accommodation, from intense close work. (No stress, no strain - at all). No, they simply change their refractive STATE at a rate of -1/2 diopter  per year, year after year after year.  It is important to know this - while you can still read the 20/40 line and AVOID starting with a minus, while hope can still exist for you. 

Telling you the truth, is indeed the "Elephant in the Room".  It is your ignorance of science - that will kill your vision - permanently. 
I only ask an OD to TELL ME, about this issue - while I can still personally, "save my vision" - for life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJmtiIxb9E0

I do not conduct a "popularity contest". Far from it.  I just want to be told scientific truth - in which case if I do not start wearing a plus, in high school, I WILL LOSE MY VISION.

This decision is too critical - to be relegated to an "OD IN HIS OFFICE".  Yet it is always the OD in his office - who is the "Elephant in the Room".  Science is better than that
30
Rehabilitation / Re: For the beginner - Scientific truth - trumps the minus lens.
« Last post by OtisBrown on November 12, 2016, 07:04:50 AM »
Do you want the pure scientific answer - or do you want the "box camera" answer?

This is the question that troubled me the most.  It is a matter of very serious science.  It is necessary to stop talking about, "length", which is always speculation, and talk ONLY about what you actually measure, (refractive STATE).  That is how to clarify this issue - and avoid "medical debates" - that produce only anger and confusion.

To simplify - does the natural eye, control its refractive STATE - based on its average value of accommodation?  To answer this question, you need to experiment on the normal primate eye - with a -3 diopter lens, and eyes with normal refractive states.

A -3 diopter lens will change the average accommodation signal by about +3 diopters.  That is the only objective issue you must understand.  The refractive state, was measured with atropine or other "freezing" drug.

The expected result of the "box camera" theory, is that the normal eye - will never change its refractive STATE, based on a proven change in average accommodation.  Her is the animation of this defining scientific experiment:

The resultant change in refractive STATE, (please IGNORE length change - it is not proven).

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wildsoet/images/neg_lens_induce_myopia.swf

The refractive STATE change - is proven science.  Do not speculate about "length" - is has no meaning.

Equally, the question - will changing the accommodation direction - have a similar effect. Here is the result:i

https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wildsoet/images/pos_lens_induce_hyperopia.swf

This is pure-science.  It is totally ignored in medicine.  You are not expected to be smart enough to understand
this critical science - of all natural eyes.

The rest - is up to you!

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