Author Topic: Diplopia  (Read 10915 times)

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2015, 09:37:55 AM »
Quote
Additional Secondary Images
In order to simplify this discussion, it has been limited to the primary and secondary focal points and their images, i.e. diplopia. It would be more accurate to say polyopia, because there are other focal points situated between the primary and secondary focal points. Testing a number of myopes with different lens powers revealed that there are often other images, fainter "ghost" images that are more difficult to detect. The origin of these could be the various isoindicial surfaces within the lens. There is evidence for this in the fact that many myopes, especially high myopes, when viewing a scene such as a full moon, without corrective lenses, see, instead of a uniform diffuse blur, multiple moon images.

Although I didn't appreciate it at the time, it was fortunate that the first subject for the experiment was myself. If I had found a willing emmetrope, or a subject with only a small degree of myopia, the outcome would probably been very different. The experiment would probably produced a small degree of myopia, partly from axial elongation and partly from lens changes (just as I believe occurs in normal myopia). The significant point, however, is that I would never have suspected the lens, but would have attributed the increase in myopia to axial elongation alone. Because I was a myope of fairly high degree, flattening of the periphery of the lens was probably quite advanced, so that the secondary focal point was already located very close to the retina. It then required very little additional flattening to push it all the way, or very close to, the retina, at which time I became aware of the secondary image.

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The presence of dual vision suggests strongly that there were two separate focal points.
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The many studies retinal defocus apparently fail to include the possible effect of spherical aberration. If negative spherical aberration begins at a certain point in accommodation, the presence of two focal points could conceivably "confuse" the input from the autonomic nervous system. In the case of a very near point of fixation, one focal point might be situated in front of the retina, and one behind, especially in the case of a myope.
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Lens Changes Hidden

If significant lens changes do occur with long-term accommodation that produces two focal points, this might go undetected in routine visual examinations. In a myope with a moderate degree of myopia, the posterior surface of the lens might be flattened just enough to have created a second focal point, but one that does not actually reach the retina. In a routine eye examination, the ophthalmologist or optometrist would never discover this for two reasons: He will probably not look for something whose existence he is unaware of; and because the second focal point would not reach all the way to the retina, no clear secondary image is formed. Only the appropriate lens power would move the secondary focal point to the retina and thus form a clear secondary image.
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Could the almost universally accepted view that lens is unimportant in myopia be wrong?
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If the hypothesis of the oblique muscle/vitreous/lens connection is confirmed, it could open the way to prevent or slow the progression of myopia by preventing accommodation and. convergence while performing nearwork.


http://www.i-see.org/incyclorotator.html]

http://www.i-see.org/incyclorotator.html[/url]

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2015, 09:50:53 AM »
Richard McCollim's description of diplopia and it's causes is what I think is correct. Dr Alex said about the brain, others just like astigmatism (the cornea or myopic meridians). The effect of accommodation on diplopia I have posted before also matches his description about the inner lens. So as Mr Becker and Dr Alex described, trying to fuse or "not see" the faint ghost image might be the trick in diplopia and not pressure to the cornea as I suggested (and something like the weird experiment in the link above!) or training the superior and inferior rectus muscles. I also believe that at the stage of diplopia it slows down the good effect of plus lenses.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 09:52:54 AM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2015, 01:48:47 PM »
Finally I managed how to fuse a ghosting image in an exercise!
I do now the astigmatic wheel mod as I edited.
http://forum.gettingstronger.org/index.php/topic,1007.msg7711.html#msg7711
A good trick is to pick a line in the angle that is not ghosting on two lines of equal strength but in one stronger and one fainter. Then trying to move them too close in order to fuse while making the faint line more fainter.
It is as active focus with one eye, and tear may come after the effort.

Of course the astigmatic mirror must be beyond the blur zone to see the ghosting images quite far from one another.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 01:52:01 PM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2015, 02:04:34 PM »
"We should consider combining long periods of print pushing during normal activities like reading, with occasional use of active double image focusing to stimulate more rapid progress. What the proper balance is between these two activities is something to find out empirically."

Words from Mr Becker to Bill when Bill noticed no further improvement while print pushing in the stage of diplopia.

http://gettingstronger.org/rehabilitation/


A notice I have made is that in my astigmatic mirror exercise mod, the moment I can fuse the line I had selected I can also fuse the two lines that are close to this line but not the lines that are in an other areas. The original astigmatic mirror exercise is very good, but suggested fusing the whole wheel and so I couldn't do that and missed the fusion with active focusing, even though succeeding in only one line at a time this way.

http://www.i-see.org/astigmirror.html


Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2015, 11:24:30 AM »
In relation to the "tilting the head while looking the astigmatic wheel with one eye" experiment (http://forum.gettingstronger.org/index.php/topic,1114.0.html):
Not 100% surely but if it was the cornea or the lens that causes diplopia then with this experiment the darkest lines shouldn't change but they do.

But if the oblique muscles can change the shape of the cornea then with tilting the head we have a huge relation to the changing of shape fo the oblique muscles with this movement, while having the cornea not moving so having it change according to the moving oblique muscles. The "moving" darkest lines could then correspond to the changes in shape (but bot moving) cornea due to the 2 oblique muscles changing shape.

Also if there are some myopic meridians in the myopic astigmatism they could change with this head tilting since the two oblique muscles are moving in relation to the still eyeball and these muscles zone the eyeball like a belt.

"The left eye, which was the poorer of the two, showed a minimum of 3.00D. of Ast. against the rule, and this amount would actually double for a few seconds and then return to the minimum. This change was evidently due to some action of the oblique muscles and occurred when the eye was directed toward the tube, while there was a slight turning of the head."

"After six or seven vigorous muscle treatments, the ophthalmometer showed a decrease in Ast. Subjectively,"

...the point I want to bring out is: That corneal astigmatism does change and often lessens and sometimes disappears after thorough muscle treatments.

Likewise, the symptoms attributed to refractive errors often vanish after muscular treatments, even through the refractive error remains. In other words, the symptoms may be due to wrong muscular condition and not to the refraction. This will account for some of the "miraculous" cures made by the kind of doctors whose slogan is "throw away your spex.""


from the "Changes in Corneal Astigmatism"  http://www.i-see.org/parker.html


http://www.i-see.org/cornea.html

***********
Human Corneas

    Bierly JR, Hainsworth DP, Schmeisser ET, Baker RS. Effect of extraocular muscle surgery on corneal topography. Invest Ophthalmol Vis Sci 1993;31(suppl):1249.
    Bowman KJ, Smith G, Carney LG. 1979. Corneal Topography and Monocular Diplopia Following Near Work. Am J Optom & Physiol Opt 55:818-823.
    Fairmaid, J.A. 1959. The Constancy of Corneal Curvature: An Examination of Corneal Response to Changes in Accommodation and Convergence.
    Home, Everard. 1795. The Croonian Lecture on Muscular Motion. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London, vol. 85, p. 1ff.
    Knoll, Henry A. 1975. Bilateral Monocular Diplopia After Near Work. American Journal of Optometry and Physiological Optics 52:139-40, 432 (errata).
    Kwitko S; Feldon S; McDonnell PJ. 1992. Corneal topographic changes following strabismus surgery in Grave's disease. Cornea 11: 36-40.
    Parker, J.W. 1930. Changes in Corneal Astigmatism. Optical Journal and Review, April 11, 1930, 21-22.
    Preslan MW; Cioffi G; Min YI. 1992. Refractive error changes following strabismus surgery. J-Pediatr-Ophthalmol-Strabismus 29:300-4.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 11:38:38 AM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2015, 02:07:36 PM »
Some comments about the "focus on the strongest image and try to fuse". Although it is amazing that we have the ability to clear temporarily and to some extent diplopia this way as Mr Becker and Dr Alex described:

1) When I am finally at the point that I can fuse after some minutes of trying, I am only able to do it in one line and in one or two lines away from the line I'm focusing and NOT at the whole astigmatic wheel. If it is just a brain's matter, why I cannot clear the whole picture at once just like active focusing? It is as if I can see finally the doubled line as one just because I have managed to turn the axis of astigmatism (without moving) and so the rest of the lines should be doubled and not clear.

2) Two months of hard active focusing and "fusing diplopia method" and I haven't had a result at the Snellen although I can see small subtitles more easily even at the afternoon. Despite fascinating these exercises, I haven't lock in.

3) I haven't read many people healing their diplopia except from Mr Becker and few others. Does Mr Becker sees the astigmatic wheel clearly now or almost clear? If yes I think he had a big success with the above method, maybe harder to gain than gaining myopia rehabilitation.

In this article only repetitive images monocular diplopia is said to be due to cerebral reason (non organic) and not ghosting diplopia which is due to refractive errors.
http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/75/suppl_4/iv24.full.pdf
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 02:21:15 PM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2015, 02:14:36 PM »
Some guys using the PVS method, reducing myopia and increasing myopic astigmatism! Something like gaining plus cylinders but not plus diopters.

http://www.powervisionforum.com/forum/showthread.php?957-Can-you-prove-your-improvement-isn-t-due-to-ASTIGMATISM

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2015, 02:13:46 PM »
After the very good mentioning by another guy that turning your head towards the shoulders makes changes to the astigmatic wheel, I would like to mention also that if for example someone with diplopia stares at a letter on the computer screen with plus lenses and moves his head the same way (only one eye looking), then he will see the whole ghosting letter moving clockwise or anti-clockwise in relation to the strong image.! At some angle degree of head tilting, reading becomes more difficult.

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2016, 05:21:41 AM »
For some weeks I have clear flashes of 20/20 vision. I haven't confirmed it with a Snellen chart yet but I know. When I have these flashes I close one eye and see very clearly because my main problem diplopia (and not myopia now) is zeroed. And these flashes stay a lot even if I blink so I they are good ones and not just from hard blinking. The bad thing is that this 20/20 vision comes from my left good eye (the one that is going through RCE syndrome now) becoming even better eliminating diplopia while my worse right stays the same. I have to patch to make my right eye better.

And due to RCE I did only plus lenses and good vision habits for the last 1-2 months. The point I am trying to make is not to give up. Diplopia may be worse than myopia at the last diopter but with time maybe it will be eliminated completely and these frequent flashes lock in.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 05:24:27 AM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2016, 05:18:39 AM »
Today was a sunny day and I could do a Snellen chart measurement. I can confirm I'm now 20/20 and saw all the letters of the 20 line. No diplopia! The bad thing is that by right eye stayed behind and my left got super acute. The months before me having RCE syndrome I did PVS again and a very good advise from endmyopia to just stare letters, subs or signs until diplopia clears and did this with one eye each time.

Something I would like to mention is that some days that the syndrome teared a little my corneal surface, I saw with haze but the main picture was sharper than before or with other words a sharper picture but with halos. Could that was a sign of corneal reshaping I'm not sure. During injuries the body can heal even better, the treatment of retinal detachment is mainly to provoke an injury to the retina in order to connect better to the eyeball, in my RCE syndrome the doctor provoked me an injury (scraping off the whole epithelium) in order for better tissue to develop, also some doctors may cut a bone at half and then pull it a little day by day in order to elongate and become the same length as the other one. My better vision started before my epithelium removal.

My above post shows that it is not just blur distinguishing of a chart as some say about vision rehabilitation but it is true improvement. I've noticed even an improvement from 20/25 to 20/20 before doing the Snellen chart in my everyday life. So the Snellen chart is a good measurement.

Thanks a lot Mr Otis Brown for his help and inviting me to this helpful forum about 2,5 year ago and the members and admin (Todd Becker) of this forum. It makes you more happy to have good vision without glasses.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 05:27:03 AM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2016, 05:35:42 PM »
Hi,

Thanks for your success.  My own experience with the Snellen, is that all normal eyes are "inconsistent".  By that, I say my eyes are excellent and normal.  But what I do see, is variation - that I consider totally normal.  I see 20/20, almost all the time.  From general checking, I am certain I see 20/15 in flashes - but I do not bother with that issue.  Yes - some days, I will have 20/25 vision, and then I blink, and get 20/20.

I am very objective about this issue.  I am certain, that if I did not check myself, and went to an OD, who would find that I could read 20/15 to 20/12, though a strong minus lens - I would be prescribed a strong minus lens.  This is why we must check - and Todd checks.  I do not "dispute" the OD, I just never take him seriously, PROVIDED, I check at home.  For people with a "weak prescription", they would be well advised to check.  That is the only way you get out from "under the thumb" of an over-prescribing OD.

Equally, and from long experience, going from 20/40 to 20/20 takes a very long time.  That is truly why no OD can help you with this issue.

Offline User1235

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2016, 05:30:55 AM »
Wow great alex,you finally made it :) .I hope to reach there one day too, maybe you could give me some helpful tips?I hope to see you still actively contributing to the forum :D :D.It's a great help to us newbies
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 05:50:29 AM by User1235 »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2016, 06:07:34 AM »
@OtisBrown
In the initial weeks of my progress it came as frequent flashes but it is becoming more and more stable. And I agree that we shouldn't be overprescribed by the fact that all normal eyes are "inconsistent". I even think that even correcting -0.25D added to the non dominant eye so that we don't have equal prescription for both eyes might then do the dominant less strong or non dominant even if we haven;t changed its prescription. So it is a vicious cycle.

@User1235
I hope to see progress from other members of this topic too! I don't have to add more other than my last posts on tips for my last improvement. I did PVS and "diplopia clearing with one eye staring" but the weird thing is that for the last 2 months I was able to do just plus lenses and good vision habits due to my corneal erosion.  I also used hyaluronic with eyebright drops, good to the cornea but I don't thing it reduces myopia. I have a long way to improve my right eye also. So we must persevere.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 06:10:34 AM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2016, 01:14:29 PM »
In my case now, I believe having the brain a good left eye with no diplopia and a bad right with diplopia chooses to cancel off diplopia so that's why maybe more suppressed image from the right eye.

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: Diplopia
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2016, 11:59:39 AM »
A very good video of Jake about Double Vision vs. Blur. He suggests "the stare tactic".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyB7Qu6R2ew