Author Topic: Questions by Musa  (Read 7159 times)

Offline OtisBrown

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Questions by Musa
« on: August 06, 2014, 03:46:07 AM »
Subject:  Musa contacted me, about preserving his distant vision, by wearing a plus for close work.

I asked him to post his questions on this thread - so that we can all learn together about the reasons and the need to wear a plus before our vision gets "worse than" 20/40.

I believe in sharing the concept of prevention and discussing the need for it - together.

I would start by asking Musa to read Dr. Alex's site:

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/

And Dr. Kaisu's site:

http://kaisuviikari.com/wordpress/

These sites, "Prevention, the challenge for the future", suggest that prevention is possible.

But the real issue is this.  Is the person willing to accept the need for long-term wearing of a plus, to keep his Snellen clear during the school years.

What we should ask is this question.  Has ANYONE used the plus - and slowly got their Snellen to go from 20/40 (about -1 diopter) to 20/20 (0.0 diopters) completely by their own efforts with a plus lens.

I think the answer is yes.  But it will all depend on your motivation and insights to keep wearing the plus - during the school years.


« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 04:00:38 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2014, 05:30:18 AM »
Hi Musa,

Subject:  I do not normally post success stories - but this is an example of how a "low-value" prescription was over-come.

Item: I understand you are young, and in school.  The records of college show the natural eye "going down" by -1/2 diopter per year.  If you go to college - you can expect to "go down" by a lot more than your -1 diopter at this point.

It is a hard thing to "face into a difficult problem", and come to grips with it.  In fact I doubt that most people will take it seriously when they are at 20/30 to 20/40. (about -1 diopter).

I expect that most people will "let it go", and I expect you to do that also.  But, you can expect to go down below 20/100, in three years.  Perhaps when that happens - you might take prevention seriously.  But I do not know you, and what your capabilities are.  You have about three years to make your preventive choice.  Just do not wait too long.

+++++++

By Neil,

I’m amazed by how quickly my eyes have been improving over the past 15 days!

When I first started, I had just been (over-)prescribed at -2.00D/-1.75D after about a decade at -1.00D. I was wearing my minus lenses all day, even for close-up work (if only I had known then what I know now…).

On day 1 of the program I could clear 20/70 on my Snellen but not 20/50. I started wearing +0.5D glasses for close-up work.

Today, I cleared 20/25 on my Snellen for the first time! (This was mid-day, in natural light, after a long walk where I was practicing pulling focus; my vision still isn’t anywhere near this good at night, but that’s expected.) I’ve moved up to +1.25D glasses for close-up work, which puts the edge of blur at around 65 cm. I only put my minus glasses on now when I need to be able to read text on the TV or on a whiteboard or screen across the room at work.

I’m amazed that just making the following small changes has had such a drastic effect:
- wearing plus lenses for all close-up work
- 10 minutes of peripheral vision exercises each day (2×5 minutes)
- making an active effort to try to read distant signs when I’m out walking (walking is my primary mode of transportation so I do this for 1-2 hours/day)

I haven’t started adding more carrots to my diet yet, but I’ve now found a local source of organic vegetables so I’ll be starting that later this week.

The legal requirement for driving here is 20/50 binocular vision. At some point I’ll have to go swing by the licensing office and get them to remove the “corrective lenses required” restriction on my license, which will be a really exciting milestone. Right now I can’t be bothered standing in line for an hour just to get that changed, but it’s nice to know I should be able to pass the vision test now!

Thanks for all your work on writing down your program and making it available to us online, Dr. Frauenfeld. After years of automatically believing what doctors told me about myopia being irreversible it’s really fun watching my vision improve. :) I’m looking forward to being 20/20 again someday!

« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 07:58:17 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline musafighter2

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2014, 03:26:18 PM »
Hi Otis,
If i were to read with the plus fairly close, about 15cm. Will the lenses be effective
Thanks

Offline musafighter2

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2014, 01:20:34 PM »
Hi Otis,
I thought i should post here instead. So to clear things up:
1) Keep using +2 but at 20 inches
2) Check own refractive state using -1 and -0.5 lenses (didn't understand this)
Can you explain "push print" to me also?
Regards

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2014, 03:42:55 PM »
Hi Musa,

I know there is no perfect way to describe or suggest that it would be wise to wear a plus -- but perhaps this video will help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiuC7a1lkrk

But no one can ever "perscribe it", and no OD ever will.  The kids do not have the interest, and the parents prohibit.  But that is for you to decide.  This is why no OD or MD had any interest in prevention - nor do I blame them.

1)  If you are reading the 20/30 to 20/50 line, then you can use a relatively strong plus for all close work.  But I can not tell you "exactly" what lens you should use.  Using "basic optics", and that information, you can figure that you can wear ABOUT a +2 to +2.5 diopter when reading at 20 inches.  But to choose the exact value, you must start with a +2. and read at 15 inches - to start.  The slowly "push away", until the reading is noticeably blurry. This will be at about 30 inches. Then begin to "pull in" until the reading "just clears".  That is how you choose a COMFORTABLE reading lens.  If you "pull in" as read at 10 inches, they you have "cancelled out" the entire purpose of wearing a plus - and you will achieve NO EFFECT.

2) Measuring your refractive state - is pure "extra-credit".  The reason is that an OD can not help you to measure your refractive state.  Further, he will ALWAYS over-prescribe you by about -1 diopters.  The reason is that he does not want to discuss, avoiding the minus, and why you would want to avoid the -2 he will prescribe for you.

3) A great deal of pure-science, shows that the minus, worn all the time, not only does not help, but in fact makes matters far worse, over a period of six years (high school through college).  The plus does not fix anything "instantly".  It only gets "rid of" THE EFFECT of long-term near work on your eyes.

4)  The story is this.  In an office, a minus is VERY IMPRESSIVE. It fixes the obvious. It is very difficult for an OD to tell you (at 20/40) that he does not want to fix the obvious.  He must tell you to "hold off", and "fix the near", or "get rid of the near" by wearing a plus for all close work.

5) The purpose of getting a -1 and -1/2 diopter, is for self checking. I believe that a person who has his own Snellen, and reads it at 20/50, then holds up his own -1, and sees 20/20 through it, will have a better grasp of this concept.  But now, he "does it himself" - which I consider a necessary empowerment, that will make you wise about what you are doing - and develop more knowledge about optics in that process.

6) But the entire process is get you to think about what you are doing, or might choose to do.

7) My attitude is this.  I present the basic facts - and SUGGEST a preventive method.  But the only person who will persuade you to do anything at all - is yourself.

8) There is nothing easy about any of this.  Some people seem to "intuitively" understand all of the above.  They wear their plus lens, when they see their vision going down towards 20/40, and just keep on wearing the plus, until they get back towards 20/20.  But almost everyone else can not "figure it out" that way.


Hi Otis,
I thought i should post here instead. So to clear things up:
1) Keep using +2 but at 20 inches
2) Check own refractive state using -1 and -0.5 lenses (didn't understand this)
Can you explain "push print" to me also?
Regards
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 08:25:51 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline musafighter2

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2014, 05:10:13 AM »
Hi Otis,
Thanks for your helpful answer. I know this question does seem quite broad, but how long do you think of wearing the plus do you think it will take for someone to improve their eyesight in my position by .25 D-- for e.g. going from -1.25 to -1.
Regards

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2014, 05:18:53 AM »
Hi Musa,

That is an excellent question - because I asked it myself about the Bates' method, and attempted to answer it, not in terms of "medicine" or a "medical-type" answer.

The question becomes, "... I am THINKING of wearing a plus..., and ... how long must I wear the plus ... until I can QUIT wearing the plus...".

That is truly the reason why a plus can never be prescribed for prevention, by any person who is medical.  I am not insulting your intelligence with this discussion.

The other issue, is people who "lock" onto a prescription, like they are going to "cure" -1.25 diopters of myopia - and under medical control.  I have yet to find anyone who has done that - with the involvement of a medical person.

The realistic question, should be, "... how long must I wear a plus, until I confirm, objectively that I read the 20/40 line, or better....".

The answer to that question is this ... as long as it takes.  If you do  not want to wear the plus, then, of course do not do it.  There is nothing that is casual, or "cure" about the plus.

This is still in the "education" phase for you - which I accept and understand.  What convinces me that the plus must be used for the long-term, is the "plus" study, conducted by  Dr. Young.  I will post that in due course.

http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/study/

Prevention is not medicine, and few people will take any time to understand statistics.  But the person who chooses to reject any wearing of a plus (and self-snellen check) should actually look at these statistics.  (Easy to read.)

Vis 6-17, LLPD.  (Readable format).  I also posted this as a spread sheet.

If you look, you will find the students, NOT wearing a plus, go down at a rate of 2/3 diopters per year, and then -1/2 diopter per year.  In fact, this process continues through college.  A person who does not believe this - is kidding himself.

The plus group did not go down.  In fact a few went up (very slowly, I agree).

But this study was "forced wearing" of a plus by children who had no idea of what they were doing, how to do it or why they were doing it.
(This is why a child can not be successful with the plus).

But for a person who is old enough (but still at 20/50), I think the results could be different.  But this becomes  your responsiblity to study and  decide.

Of course, Musa, if you find a person advertising you can get out of myopia in two weeks - why not buy their package - and report back on your results?

Of course, if this product works for you - there would be no further reason to ask any questions on this site.  But give it a try.

Hi Otis,
Thanks for your helpful answer. I know this question does seem quite broad, but how long do you think of wearing the plus do you think it will take for someone to improve their eyesight in my position by .25 D-- for e.g. going from -1.25 to -1.
Regards
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 07:24:21 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline musafighter2

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2014, 05:32:54 AM »
Is this accurate? Only 2 weeks? http://restore-my-vision-now.com/?hop=catardat

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2014, 07:48:59 PM »
Hi Musa,

You will find many claims.  But it up to you to judge.  Read this:

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/how-to-improve-eyesight-2040-to-2015/

Since you are reading 20/50 at this time - you might try it for about four months and let us know of your success.  You are the only person who can confirm objective results on your own Snellen. 


Is this accurate? Only 2 weeks? http://restore-my-vision-now.com/?hop=catardat
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 04:16:01 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline musafighter2

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2014, 07:50:06 AM »
Hello Otis,
Over the past few months, i kept a close eye on your contribution to helping people restore 20/20. You are extremely helpful to me and others im sure of. However, i woul like to know- without sounding rude- what is your gain out of this; a person who has accomplished 20/20. Please answer anyway you like- maybe not at all- because i know this might sound obnoxious and i will understand.
Regards

Offline musafighter2

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2014, 07:54:43 AM »
Hello Otis,
Just read that link you sent. One question: one who has achieved 20/20 through the plus method, will they have to continue this method even after their eyes stabilize.

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2014, 10:34:19 AM »
Hi Musa,

Subject: Massive claims about "cure"  ... but with what results?

That was my question - when  I reviewed Dr. Bates study, a very long time ago.  I felt that there was some truth in Dr. Bates, but that "just prevention" was extremely difficult.  In fact, I have documented this issue myself.  When I talk about true-prevention, I mean that the person learns to "avoid the minus at all costs".  That means he personally verifies he always passes the 20/40 line - himself - with no exceptions.

That means, a degree of compromise, perhaps.  The compromise, is that I wear a plus, and for the long-term, at that.  It also means that I objectively verify my visual acuity MYSELF.  No OD can help you with this.  You must do it yourself. 

It is this the "independence" of mind, that is so difficult - for all of us.  This is a truth - I never deny.  I also do not claim "success" because it depends on insight and fortitude of the person himself.  No one can "control" you to do what is necessary.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION (restricted to starting with 20/60 vision):  Yes, pilots manage to do it, and confirm 20/20. They do it, because no OD can do it for them.  They do it, because they know that they MUST read the 20/20 line - at home - before they go for an FAA exam. They do it because pilots get paid $100,000 per year to be flight qualified.  That means that they wear the plus, if they see their Snellen go down-to 20/30.  I truly do not think anyone else will make that type of long-term commitment.  There is no "struggle" with an OD about this issue, because the pilot always passes the 20/20 line.  There is also no COST to them - to do it.

For everyone else - well they totally lack the motivation to do anything like that.

So yes, presuming you over-come your natural "resistance" to wearing a plus for near, it is possible to avoid nearsightedness, and yes, if you do manage to pass the 20/25 line - you can keep your distant vision - when all your friends lose their distant vision.

I know you (and everyone else) will object - by saying, "... you mean I have to wear glasses ... to avoid wearing glasses..."

I have heard that statement many times.  But that is truly the question you will have to answer yourself - because I can not answer it for you.

Quite frankly, the people who I know for certain (because I trust THEIR measurements), have used BOTH, "exercise" and the plus.  It would be nuts to not use both!!

They also start from a "mild" level of about 20/60, and about -1.5 diopters. 

The 'deeper science' (that is my concern) simply proves that it is possible.  But no force on earth, can make you do it.

Otis





Hello Otis,
Just read that link you sent. One question: one who has achieved 20/20 through the plus method, will they have to continue this method even after their eyes stabilize.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 10:42:47 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline musafighter2

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2014, 01:20:21 PM »
Hi Otis,
That reminds me: can you please elaborate on eye exercises such as: which ones are most effective and how long to do them and so on...

Offline musafighter2

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2014, 07:54:16 AM »
Hi Otis,
Would i have to take my reading glasses to school? If i use them only for close work at home, will they still be kinda effective?
Regards

Offline musafighter2

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Re: Questions by Musa
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2014, 10:21:59 AM »
Hi Otis,
I thought about doing eye exercises 10 mins a day. Is this OK? Also, i thought there were more most on this thread.