Author Topic: Eliminating myopia  (Read 6950 times)

Offline HansK

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Eliminating myopia
« on: October 18, 2014, 05:58:41 PM »
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« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 09:48:17 AM by HansK »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2014, 06:10:36 PM »
Hi Hans,

A prescription of -1.0 to -1.25 diopters - is what Todd had. If you checked your own Snellen at home, you would be reading about the 20/40 line, or 6/12 line.  I personally believe in checking myself -since I am an engineer, and know how to do it.  Further, you will believe in your own improvement (objectively) if you do this measurement yourself.   Here are two charts you can use to do this checking.  Down-load this one.

http://www.i-see.org/block_letter_eye_chart.pdf

Or click here for an electronic Snellen.  Just find and press "display" several times for the letters.

http://www.smbs.buffalo.edu/oph/ped/IVAC/IVAC.html

Reading half the letters passes the line. Use that as the standard for your reporting.  Using the "plus" as Todd did it, is a slow process.  It means you only use a "minus" when necessary, and choose a comfortable "reading glass" for close work.

Since you are 18 years old, and I would presume going though six more years of school, I would add that the proven rate at which your eyes will go down is -1/2 diopter per year - for each year in school.  This would mean you will add about -3 dioipters to your current refraction.  ( I will supply the proof for this is you are interested. )

But Todd will give you the best advice possible.

Personally I think Ortho-K is very expensive ($1,500 per year), and does not produce naked-eye recovery.  Properly understood and conducted - prevention with a plus simply does not cost very much.  But you must have the personal resolve to do it.




Hello,

I am from Germany. I am 18 years old and I am myopic since 2010.

Left eye: -1.00 to -1.25
Right eye: -1.50

Well, I am using ortho-k, but I do have really large pupils. Even at sunny days, I see some halos. And I am not really pleased with the result because I often sleep "wrong" so that the lenses do not take their right place during sleep. Consequently, the sight is then "milky", as if you recently woke up and see not blurred, but not really sharp.

The IRDT-Theory makes sense, so I decided to give this a chance.

On my left eye, I continue wearing the ortho-k lense, but on my right eye, I stopped. It took ca. 1 week to achieve the -1.50 again. I am using "monocular defocus". Do not ask why, my parents do not believe in it when I talked to them about what I am going to do. They do not know that I started to practice today. :p And they do not know that I have reading glasses.

So I want to ask if it is harmful to let just one eye corrected? To be honest, it is weird, but you get used to it. Whenever I do near work (I recently started studying :)), I wear my plus lenses to see blurred so I can hardly read the text without effort.

Do you think myopia did not progress because of defocus (halos) with ortho-k?

When I hopefully achieve emmetropia (even with halos, I could see 20/12 and with light in my eye, the 20/10 line was easy to read), I will do this to my opposite eye.

Looking forward for your answers, especially from Todd. :) I came to this forum because I have seen your talk on YouTube about reversing myopia.

Are there things I have to carry about because of monocular defocus? The ortho-k stopped the progression of my myopia and I need sharp sight in the university. Otherwise, I could not read what is written on the blackboard etc.

How long will it take to see progress? I really love seeing. I remember the time when I was not nearsighted. I always read things where many people failed.

Kind regards,
Hans

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2014, 07:25:46 PM »
Hi Hans,

Note: We all want to "Eliminate Myopia".  Universally -- we ALL want to do that.  But the issue is prevention, or entry, and, by monitoring your own Snellen, to change your refractive status, all-be-it slowly in a positive direction, by

1) Wearing a +2 for all close work, and

2) Assuming self-checked 20/40, avoid wearing the minus as much as possible.  That is a realistic assessment about what is possible.

Since your refraction is the almost the same in both eyes, I can estimate that you can wear a +2 diopter lens for reading at 50 cm.  Is that correct.

Further, since both eyes open, you are close to 20/30 to 20/25, on a good Snellen.  Is that correct.

Here is the data, that shows that standard -1/2 diopter down rate for military students, and is a study of the plus lens, the same rate for children.

For military students:

http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/west-point/

For children.  In this case, the child had to be "forced" to wear the plus, because he did not understand the necessity of doing so.  The other group wore a strong minus lens - all the time. They went down at -1/2 diopter per year.

http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/study/

These studies are important - because they show that wise wearing of a strong plus for near, can slowly restore your Snellen visual acuity up to 20/40 and better, and then to 20/20.  (refractive state of 0.0 diopters, or slightly positive).

If you have a knowledge of statistics, you can check the data  yourself.

But let me answer an implied question you might have.  "What do ophthalmologist think about plus-prevention."  Part of the answer is that they realized that the "general public" will not take it seriously (at 20/40) so they just will not talk about.  But a few have reviewed the concept, and insist their own children wear the plus (to avoid wearing the minus - at all).

http://kaisuviikari.com/wordpress/

It is always good to understand that plus-prevention is indeed the second-opinion.  But your conduct, fortitude and judgment is then only possibility for your own success.


« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 07:53:56 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline HansK

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 12:37:31 PM »
Hi Mr. Otis!

Today, I checked myself on the Snellen chart (designed for 3 meters). With my right eye, I can hardly read (sometimes) the 20/60 line (-1.50 diopters). The 20/70 line can be seen normally, but 20/60 is much harder.

Yes, prevention is the key, but I did not know anything about prevention. After becoming myopic, I believed what the OD told me. He said that I always have to wear my glasses. If I do not, my eyes will worsen. Oh man, if I had the knowledge earlier…

I do not know which line I can read with both eyes being myopic.

I want to ask you: Can the plus be too strong? Because when I watch TV for example, I do not really care for the picture. What is being said is more interesting to me. Consequently, I could wear +5 for example. That would make no difference/difficulties for me.

Can you say: The stronger the plus, the faster the progress?

Kind regards,
Hans

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 01:50:54 PM »
Hi Hans,

I am very pleased you checked your own Snellen.  Now you know where you stand - objectively.  Now you know your "stating point".

Generally, you can see better with both eyes - typically 20/50.  Remember, reading 1/2 the letters is the requirement, not all the letters.  That is important.  Also, we see a range of values - like 20/60 you will read all the letters, 20/50, perhaps 1/2 and 20/40, maybe one or two.

The LEGAL STANDARD to drive a care - is 20/40 - or better.  For now, you will need a minus lens for distance.  Judging what you tell me, I would suggest that you can read though a +2, at 50 cm.  You can find that lens for about $10 in a drug store.  Try several.  Stronger - will be too strong.   Hold the reading at 50 cm, and read though a plus with a +3.0  Too blurry - right? Then try a +2.  OK?

Then that is the plus you will use.

ABOUT OD'S BLIND BELIEF:

Hans> Yes, prevention is the key, but I did not know anything about prevention. After becoming myopic, I believed what the OD told me. He said that I always have to wear my glasses. If I do not, my eyes will worsen. Oh man, if I had the knowledge earlier.

Otis> This is tragic.  I know how difficult plus-prevention is.  But wearing a strong minus all the time, or to say, "YOU MUST WEAR A STRONG MINUS ALL THE TIME", is the biggest lie I know of.  It would be nice if full scientific honesty existed in optometry - but that must be your own judgment about what constitutes scientific honesty.

Otis> If they said that "recovery" was very difficult, and they judge you would not do what is necessary, I would agree with them.  Here is the honest statement about the issue of a person and the resistance he always has when prevention is recommended (at 20/50, or about -1 diopter).

http://myopiafree.i-see.org/prent.txt

Yes I trust Dr. Prentice's evaluation of how and why a person will reject wearing the plus, and monitoring his own Snellen.  He says that wearing the plus (for near), is tedious - and indeed it is.  That to me, is the real problem of plus-prevention.  For now, since this is all "new" to you, it will not make sense - perhaps.  But I always believe in telling the truth - and encouraging the person to dig deeper into this difficult issue himself. 

The plus is not a "magic pill", nor is it possible to "speed up" recovery.  This is the real implication of Dr. Prentice's statement.


Hi Mr. Otis!

Today, I checked myself on the Snellen chart (designed for 3 meters). With my right eye, I can hardly read (sometimes) the 20/60 line (-1.50 diopters). The 20/70 line can be seen normally, but 20/60 is much harder.

Yes, prevention is the key, but I did not know anything about prevention. After becoming myopic, I believed what the OD told me. He said that I always have to wear my glasses. If I do not, my eyes will worsen. Oh man, if I had the knowledge earlier…

I do not know which line I can read with both eyes being myopic.

I want to ask you: Can the plus be too strong? Because when I watch TV for example, I do not really care for the picture. What is being said is more interesting to me. Consequently, I could wear +5 for example. That would make no difference/difficulties for me.

Can you say: The stronger the plus, the faster the progress?

Kind regards,
Hans
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 04:27:21 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline HansK

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2014, 04:39:14 PM »
Hi Mr. Otis!

I live in Germany and you must have at least with both eyes better than 20/30 (you must have 0,7 or better). That means I cannot drive without correction.

I am excited about the results. :)

Note: @Otis, plus lenses are not tedious. When I wear them, I feel relaxed (because I do not have to strain my eyes when I do a lot of near work for a long time), even more after having worn them, when I look far away.

Hi Tom!

In 2012, I found a German forum about improving the vision, mainly focused on Bates. I tried that, but I just had temporary results, no (constant) improvement. I did not want to wear glasses, so I decided to wear contact lenses. Unfortunately, I am a person who does not sleep a lot in the night (about 4-5 hours). After school, I sleep again ca. 3 hours. I could not wear the lenses because they disturbed me because I slept too less. I did some research and found ortho-k. This was my goal: seeing without optical aid BEING AWAKE. But as I have mentioned, ortho-k does not show good results because of sleep position etc.

And in general, with ortho-k, the quality of the picture you see is not the same. I see halos for example because of my large pupils.

Kind regards
Hans
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 04:43:51 PM by HansK »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2014, 04:47:19 PM »
Hi Hans,

A number of engineers (Don Rehm), and scientists have attempted to get the National Eye Institute to "open a discussion" on plus prevention, with mature adults.  The result is that we are totally ignored.  I know young children are "impossible", but this video shows the concept - in a logical way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiuC7a1lkrk

I try to respect, 1) The difficulty of prevention (at 20/50), 2) They fact that it is difficult, and requires time to get to 20/40 and 20/30, and 3) The fact that no OD in a office can "make money" off you - if he volunteers this information to you.

I have no interest in "money" - as such.  I just wish my intelligence were respected - before I was put into a strong minus, and told to "wear it all time, or my vision would -- get worse".

In fact, any rational analysis, will show that wearing a minus lens all the time is the REASON your vision got worse.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 04:48:55 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline Myoctim

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 05:00:21 PM »
So I want to ask if it is harmful to let just one eye corrected? To be honest, it is weird, but you get used to it. Whenever I do near work (I recently started studying :)), I wear my plus lenses to see blurred so I can hardly read the text without effort.

Hi HansK,

when I was a student I only could afford replacing my dominant eye's contact.

But it didn't change anything. The prescription difference between my eyes always stayed the same, no matter if using no correction like in my teens, full correction glasses later or that monovision when studying.

From my current perspective that seems a bit weird because according to the common rehab experience we should expect a corrected eye getting more myopic over the years.

Offline Myoctim

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 07:45:15 AM »
Hi Myoctim,

I was thinking about quitting ortho-k at all and fortunately, I did.

Now, I really recognize that my left eye (with about -1.00 diopters with ortho-k) is dominating (right eye about -1.50 diopters with ortho-k). Self-checking Snellen after 2 weeks starting plus-wearing:

Left: about 20/30-20/40
Right: about 20/50-20/60
together: about 20/30-20/40 (it depends)

I do not know which refractive state (measured by the OD) my eyes currently have. It's about 1 week now (after my last post of October 19) that I have NO contact to any minus.
After having seen these results, I do not know if I should get some minus (undercorrection) for the university.


Interestingly the spherical equivalent regarding your -1.0 sph -1.25 cyl would be -1 + 1/2*-1.25 = -1.625 pretty close to your other eye's -1.5 sph 0 cyl.

But for distance a -1 sph -1.25 cyl "outperforms" a -1.5 sph while at near it's just the opposite.

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2014, 11:53:52 AM »
Hi Hans,

From your own objective checking - you have 20/30 vision.  There are many people posting here, who could only DREAM of having vision that good. 

Some people (Shadowfoot) seem to understand the need to "commit" to wearing the plus, with good vision, to go that "extra step" to perhaps 20/20, and even 20/15.  (Positive status of the natural eye.) 

Others can not devote any time to "plus wearing".

http://gettingstronger.org/2012/04/how-one-person-improved-his-vision/

This is the result of one man, "getting the idea", who made heavy use of the plus, and got to 20/15.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 12:01:16 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2014, 05:37:31 PM »

Hi Hans,

I think that "true prevention", is indeed very difficult - for most of us.  But, for yourself, I truly believe it is possible.  There are a lot of misconceptions published (and believed) in "medical circles", and it is difficult for me, or you to deal with them.  That is a very large problem -- and requires a lot of thought to deal with them.

It is very important that you judge that your efforts are correct as science.  There is a lot of confirmation, in science, that the eye  is (sadly) highly responsive to a "negative environment", that our modern society forces on us.  I think you are developing the wisdom to understand that issue -- for your own personal advantage.

The quality of a scientists -- is to be objective.  It is his quality, to make objective measurements of your own visual acuity on your brightly-lit Snellen.  For Germany, you must exceed the 20/30 line.  It is reasonable to quit wearing any minus when you achieve that result.

But to do better, you must continue to wear the plus on a regular basis.  There are people who will object to protecting their distant vision - by wearing a plus for near.  It is because they do not understand the science that supports the need for plus prevention, and you can not prescribe it.  That is where your growing personal education, in science and engineering can help you.

For me, wearing the plus, is like, "brushing my teeth on a regular basis".  Can I prove that it is necessary?  No I can not.  But I agree, that wearing a plus (for near) is like that.  You must trust yourself, and future learning about this issue, to take that responsibility.  This is why you must be 18 years old, and entering a four year college - to do it.

The reason, is that if you were a "casual" person at age 26 years ( out of school ), I could not tell you that your refractive state will continue "negative" at a rate of -1/2 diopter per year - for each year in school, for the next six years.

But I can tell you that - because it is the truth.

That means, to me, that there can't be any cure - at all.  It also means that after you begin to see 20/20, objectively, you must continue with the plus.

Thus people who claim and "cure", are making a mistake.  But with the wisdom to face facts, you would know enough, to re-start with the plus, when you quit wearing it - for some time.

I assume, that you will continue with the plus, and will eventually see objective 20/20, and will continue with the plus for a few months. Then you can quit for some time.

But our natural eyes "responsiveness" to long term near, will mean that you can expect to 'start down' again, as long as you are in school.

But now, checking your own Snellen, you will not it is time to re-start plus lens wear - and get back to 20/20.

That is exactly what my nephew Keith did. That is what you can do.  Medical people simply are not involved, and can offer no help with this. There job is never prevention, so we should not get them  involved with this subject.

I will respond to your additional question, in due course. They are all good, and need to be  understood.


Hi Mr. Otis,

>> Plus = habit
I am wearing the plus during ALL close work. It is now a habit for me to wear it. I do not have to think about it - I just do it.

>> My visual acuity
In the evening, when I get slowly tired, I am able to read 20/20 (1/2 of the letters, not completely) but in the next morning, I am again about 20/30. This shows me hopefully that I am making progress.

>> Motivation and believe in plus
Because I have seen progress, I am motived in wearing the plus. When I wear my old glasses (before ortho-k) now (with -1.25), the image is over focused (is that term correct?), i.e. the glasses are too strong. I see progress when I watch TV (about 20 feet distance :P). Sometimes, I can (almost clearly) read the "SAMSUNG" down on the TV.

>> Own experience: talking about plus prevention
My sister is a student (25 years) and she does much close work. When I went to the OD with her, she had -0.25 on both eyes, but did not want to have glasses because she sees good, she says. I talked to her about my vision recovery and that I bought plus glasses to reverse myopia. Well, she was confused and she believed myopia is caused by genetics. Of course, the OD confirmed that.

>> Further questions
Mr. Otis, you say the normal eye has a refractive state about 0 to +2 diopters (positive refractive state) in an open environment. When the refractive state is positive, does the eye have to accommodate all the time while looking in the distance? If so, why does the eye not want to compensate and get to 0.0 diopters? If not, when does the eye have to accommodate with a positive refractive state (in the distance)?

Kind regards,
Hans

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2014, 11:09:15 AM »
Hi Hans,

I know your interest in "prevention" was that you wished to STOP sleeping in a contact lens all night - to keep your 20/15 vision in the day time.

I am not certain of your motive at this point.  I always deal with objective measurements - and do not bother with an OD.

You have legal 20/20, meaning that you read 1/2 the letters correctly on the 20/20 line.  (There are many people here who would be very happy if they could do that on their "home Snellen".)

They would not want to wear a -1 diopter all the time, to get 20/15 and 20/10 vision.

This is why I describe you as being, "over-prescribed" by -1 diopter. 

I would also add, that at age 18, with perhaps 6 years of more school, you vision will go down by -1/2 diopter per year.

For me, that would be enough to "motivate" myself to continue to wear the plus -- during the six more years of school.

I would be curious about you commentary on that issue.

You want to "eliminate myopia", but you do not want to wear Ortho-K, and do not want to wear a +2.75 diopter to +3.00 D for near.  Further, you want far better than 20/20.

So your choice is either Ortho-K at $1,500 per year - for the next 10 years.  Or it is to wear a "plus for near", with nothing required for distant vision (other that you check yourself).  That costs absolutely nothing - when you think about it.

From my experience with pilots (who do not "fight" the wearing of a stronger plus for six months), well they almost always exceed the 20/20 line (effectively required to pass the FAA 20/20 line).

But absolutely no optometrist can prescribe any of this.  It just takes too much intelligence and MOTIVATION to do it.

But if you have a good math and scientific background, I would suggest a review of these statistics.

http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/study/

I am certain of the statistics, and I am certain that Todd was successful.  But I am not certain about you and your choice of action for the next six year.  That can only be an educated choice on your part.


« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 01:42:06 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline Myoctim

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2014, 12:46:36 PM »
Quote
Where did you get that -1.25 cyl? I have (or even had?) "just" -1.0 sph on my left eye and -1.5 sph on my right eye.

Kind regards,
Hans

Sorry HansK,
looks like I was reading a bit  too much in the blur zone, so I took your "Left eye: -1.00 to -1.25" for a -1  -1.2 cyl. prescription.
I guess I better should  read at the D2 distance  ;-)
 

Offline HansK

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2014, 05:58:16 PM »
Hi Myoctim,

haha no problem. :b

When I read at D2 and stare, I see how my eyes are auto-focusing. This is really interesting. Do you experience the same? What do you do to get the text clear?

Kind regards,
Hans

Offline Myoctim

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Re: Eliminating myopia
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2014, 11:08:04 AM »

When I read at D2 and stare, I see how my eyes are auto-focusing. This is really interesting. Do you experience the same? What do you do to get the text clear?

Hi HansK,

when starting with print pushing I also stared at D2 until the text cleared up.
Meanwhile I learned a bit triggering that process willingly but I'm not sure if in reality it's only a narrowing of my pupils simply increasing the depth of field.

kind regards
Myoctim