Author Topic: weird vision/watery vision almost gone  (Read 4086 times)

Offline CapitalPrince

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weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« on: January 02, 2015, 10:35:28 AM »
I want to post a quick update since ii have been absent from the forum for a while. i've been using the plus for almost a year now. I started with about 20/30 (sometimes better sometimes worse). Bt=ut the real problem was when i blinked, i got this weird watery vision thing. The image would just go crazy.  It's hard to described, and I posted a topic several months ago about it. Some other people mentioned they experience this as well i think (there was a few posts in the frauenfeld forum about it).

I started using a -0.5D/+1.5D bifocal lens in around feb 2014, which gave me good 20/20-20/15.  i also made made good progress using the snellen focus pulling But again i had the weird problem as i described earlier which made my vision unstable and its often worse than that.

Around sept 2014, i noticed my vision getting better and I switched to a -0.25D/+1.5D progressive lens.

Since Dec 15 2014, when i came back from college, i switched to using a plano top/+2.0D bifocal. I did alot of reading at the slight blur point for the last two weeks. i would say 4hours+ a day. And suddenly last week I woke up one day and the weird vision blinking thing was   almost gone, i would say about 80% gone. When i blink forcibly the image still does change VERY slightly (sometimes better sometimes worse), but not the crazy weird vision before. It's stayed the same for the past work and hasn't reversed back to the previous weird vision.

I'm guessing my axial length did get shorter? not sure. But i'm ecstatic this problem is finally "fixed". it makes reading with a plus at the blur point much easier. My vision these days is almost always 20/20, sometimes when i wake up in the morning its perceptibly less maybe 20/25. But my vision is quite "stable", although sitll not perfect. I'm very happy with the progress i've made, especially with the great reduction in this weird blinking problem, hopefully everyone else's vision improvement is going well.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 10:40:46 AM by CapitalPrince »

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2015, 10:46:36 AM »
this is off topic but some of you guys may have heard of Leo angart, who claimed he reversed his myopia from -5D with eye exercises and such. In this video ( http://www.vision-training.com/en/Leo%20Angart/Leo%20Angart.htm ) he mentioned briefly an exercise is to read the text at the edge of blur, And move the text slightly back and forth (in focus and out into the blur) triggering the focus mechanism,

i doubt his other eye exercises are helpful, but i'm glad to see he mentioned focusing at the edge of blur.

From my few months experience of wearing the plus, i can say that it's important to read actively with a *very slight* blur. There was alot of previous thread about this and i wasn't sure about the effects of strong/slight blur as well. I just want to emphasize that abit for those who have plataued or not seeing progress.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 10:56:01 AM by CapitalPrince »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2015, 02:43:52 PM »
There might be some point in medium/high blur with plus but when focusing for a lot of time on the same thing as an exercise.

Hope you get a clear and stable 20/20!

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2015, 03:12:56 PM »
Hey Alex since i haven't been following the forum for a while, hows your vision so far? if i recall you had a 20/32 or 20/25 plateau? are you still wearing minus for distance or bifocal?

Offline gekonus

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2015, 12:00:59 PM »
So a VERY SLIGHT blur is better than medium blur ? Ive been trying this recently.

Also, is it true that you get many TEMPORARY improvements until a slight PERMANENT improvement comes in? Its difficult to tell whenever you Lock In the improvements if you know what I mean

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2015, 03:00:16 PM »
yes i believe a very slight blur gets better results. since you've made little progress with intermediate blur, try with slight blur.

you definitely need to read for long periods at a time (with very minor breaks). If you plan to read 10 mins here and there, then you can expect no significant results.

 as in improvements, well it can be sporadic. i am a math major, so i didn't do lots of reading at the blur point. Most of my work this semester was difficult problems sets, so i didn't have too much time for leisure reading. if you spend several hours reading at the slight blur point a day i assume you will achieve much faster progress.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 03:19:47 PM by CapitalPrince »

Offline gekonus

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2015, 06:20:49 AM »
And also, by "reading" , do you mean just reading normally, or really trying to FORCE the text to become clear? I cant explain this, but reading passively doesnt clear even my slight blurs. it feels like I need to "DO SOMETHING" to clear the blur

Offline HansK

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2015, 06:58:41 AM »
Hi gekonus,

I think I did not do active focusing correctly.

When I am at D2, I can let my eyes "autofocus" (it feels like zooming, kinda "awkward"/pupils changing). How did I "learn" that?

I slightly pushed from D1 to D2 and then immediately back to D1. After a few times, you get that "autofocus"-feeling when you do not pull in again to D1 -- but it has to be a slight blur.

After a few days, I could already increase D1 and D2 about 3 cm.

So yes, you have to do something - that's why it's called "active focusing".

Hope that helps.

Kind regards,
Hans
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 07:00:21 AM by HansK »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2015, 07:09:05 AM »
Hi Jim,

I doubt that Capital, has an interest in spending $350 to go to an OD to prove some point you are attempting to make.  No one working to clear their Snellen from 20/40 to 20/20, has an obligation to go to an optometrist for every measurement.  That would be excessively expensive - for anyone posting here.

Repeated personal measurements are required.  That is the real issue - for anyone working to change his refractive STATE in a positive direction.

You can get a much more accurate measurement, yourself, if you obtain the necessary "test lenses" from Zennioptica for about $20, and have the competence to use them correctly - to measure your own refractive state accurately and objectively.

Thanks for your commentary.


CapitalPrince,

I am curious how your father's eyesight currently is, as he is the most incredible case I've read about (eliminating -1D in 3 months). Did he return to 0D and have you checked him with a refractor? If he has managed to keep the improvement, what do you and he think was the most important factor in the training routine?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 07:11:04 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2015, 08:40:05 AM »
Hi Jimboston,

as you know an optometrist is really a "glasses salesman". They need to sell glasses for a living, and just like a car salesman whose goal is to get you to buy a car, an optometrist will do whatever they can to sell you glasses.

Unless a person can read the 20/20 with a +1D lens, and with naked eye 20/10+. He will certainly get a prescription. So a refractive state measurement is almost meaningless and excessive. If you have borderline 20/20, an OD will give you an -1D prescription. In this forum we definition refractive state as *weakest* lens to just clear the 20/20.

As with my father's case here's the summary. With a -1D/-0.75D he could read the 20/20. With a -0.5D/-0.5D he had
difficultly in reading the 20/20. He mainly used print pushing using a snellen and the monitor for long periods of time. After about 3 months he could objective read the 20/20 and sometimes in 20/15 in better light. You can read the details and my analysis of his vision improvement in my earlier posts, i don't feel like retyping. But his most important factor is he actively focus on blur opbjects for LONG periods of time until he felt a great did of stress.
Currently he can still read the 20/20 and wears a +1.5 for computer work.

I will not go back to an OD when i can measure my vision myself. the OD measurement is almost mindless and aimed at providing the most excessive prescription. 20/20 bright snellen is fine. yes if i put a -0.5D i will be AMAZED at the sharpness but that is not practically necessary.

Again in this post i mentioned that i experienced this "weird vision blking problem". And after using the plus for several months that problem is greatly reduced. and as a result greatly improved the stability of my vision.

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2015, 10:49:08 AM »
He jimboston,

for focus pushing you need to incorporate some of bates ideas. in the edge of blur, make sure to shift, try to look at the smallest detail, and try tracing the letters. and make sure to blink this will obviously slow down your reading speed. this is what is called "active focus". and you need to do this for long blocks of time 30mins +

by the way what is your current vision and refractive state (to just clear the 20/20? any improvements?

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2015, 11:52:06 AM »
Hi Jim,

Subject: There is no "locking" of improvements - ever.

Jim>  Certainly, locking in the improvements is the stumbling block, which no one has yet provided a solution for.

No one can claim, "locking" because the natural eye never "locks".  It just keeps on going down, from prolonged "near work" in college.

That is because of what science says about the behavior of the totally natural eye - when placed in a "long-term near" situation.   (See the Eskimo refractive STATE problem, when working for 12 years with close work, and no preventive plus use:

http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/graphics/

The natural eye is highly "adaptive", to long-term near, measured as a refractive STATE, not a failure.  But please look the scientific data yourself:

http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/study/

The natural eye goes down at a rate of -2/3 to -1/2 diopter per year.  The eye wearing a strong plus, simply DOES NOT GO DOWN.  Their were children who wore the plus for all near work.  They were successful.  The children who did not wear the plus - were not successful, in "pure prevention".

That tells me, that a wise, motivated person, at 20/40 (about -1 diopter, self measured) could get a positive change of about +1 diiopter in about one year, i.e., get back to self-verified 20/20.

This is why I suggest a "limit" in reasonable recovery - if you understand how difficult it is to do it.

This study also suggest that you must do it yourself, and indeed, long-term wearing of the plus is required during the years we spend in college.

That is a tough lesson to learn - but it is worth learning it.

It is clear that no OD will tell you this truth.

You must simply measure it yourself.

He jimboston,

for focus pushing you need to incorporate some of bates ideas. in the edge of blur, make sure to shift, try to look at the smallest detail, and try tracing the letters. and make sure to blink this will obviously slow down your reading speed. this is what is called "active focus". and you need to do this for long blocks of time 30mins +

I am surprised you listed Bates techniques for active focusing, which are considered ineffective relaxation in this and other plus lens forums. Interestingly, my experience shows that a relaxed stare, consistent with Bates, yields best results, but there is only so much improvement you can get staring at the Snellen. The effects don't transfer after the exercises, and sleep always returns me back to baseline.

However, I have experimented with most suggestions (e.g. DeAngelis recommends wide opening of the eyelids, Becker & Frauenfeld suggest staring/blinking+shifting the distance to trigger focus), and have found that effortful use of the eyelids backfires. Hard blinks, even soft but frequent blinks can initially improve acuity, but then lead to fatigue, dry eye and/or acuity loss later. I believe eyelid use is a big component. Eye rotations I have found completely ineffective for better focusing.

Todd Becker describes a routine of prolonged staring where you pay attention to the darkest part of the image and allow for the eye to clear the blur automatically. I.e. you point the gaze at slight blur and like a camera the eyes resolve it automatically. I have reviewed most blur clearing techniques in an old thread, but active focusing  seems almost magical, when you try to practice or describe it.

Thus, there is either something very subtle about active focus that is not yet well explained or it doesn't work beyond a limited range.

Certainly, locking in the improvements is the stumbling block, which no one has yet provided a solution for.

Quote
by the way what is your current vision and refractive state (to just clear the 20/20? any improvements?

I've been about -1.25D for many years, but have been experimenting with active focus extensively during the last 4-5 months. I do not wear glasses most of the time.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 12:17:32 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2015, 01:19:39 PM »
hi jimboston,

i don't recommend staring of any kind. I might gotten across the wrong message. i don't want to get too deep into the Bates method or anything, but bates advised using the eyes naturally.

Just get a book out, put it in the slightly blur zone and read like you normally would, and read for long periods of time.

Since your myopia is around -1.25D, I recommend you wear a -0.5D/+1.5D bifocal for example. I don't know your visual acuity, but having less than 20/40 vision is rather discomforting to the visual system and accomplishes nothing. So try a weaker minus on top that corrects your vision to 20/30-20/40.

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2015, 04:58:45 PM »
Hi Capital,

My 2 cents.

Subject: I know this is a difficult subject - if you are reading 1/2 the 20/40 line.

This is where you have to choose, to get a bifocal, of about -1/2 diopter on top, and a strong plus on the bottom.  If you are in school, you will need the minus, when looking at the board, no doubt about  it.

But most of the time, at 20/40, you can do almost everything with no minus on.  I played tennis with 20/40, and my game was no worse that usual. In fact serving is easier with no lens on my face to get wet from sweat.  For T/V, I can just sit closer.

What I would do, would just buy some -1 diopter (spherical) for $7, from Zenniopical and carry them in my pocket.  But for all close work, always with the plus - no exceptions.

This process, could get you to about 20/25 in about six months - if you do  your own checking.  Once at self-confirmed 20/25, then no minus lens wearing. (About self checked -1/2 diopter).

This entire point is that this "process" is totally under *my* control.  I just do not attempt to "share" any responsibility with a OD. It is either I have the courage to do everything myself, or I do nothing at all.  This is not a "medical responsibility", it is my responsiblity.  I have no argument, with a person who is in "fear" of wearing a plus in this agressive manner, or who feels he sees some "bad effect".  I know an OD in his office will "play" on your fears, to convince you to not wear the +2, with the determination it will take - to be successful.  My eyes belong to me, and I will take care of them myself.

Capital - I am pleased you reached a point where you can avoid the minus. That is a judgment on your part, but confirming 20/25, on a bright Snellen, is a big success for you.

If you continue with the plus, you refraction (self-checked) will become "positive" as mine is.  That is VERY protective of your long-term distant vision - when in college.  There is NO RISK to doing this - that is why I did it.



hi jimboston,

i don't recommend staring of any kind. I might gotten across the wrong message. i don't want to get too deep into the Bates method or anything, but bates advised using the eyes naturally.

Just get a book out, put it in the slightly blur zone and read like you normally would, and read for long periods of time.

Since your myopia is around -1.25D, I recommend you wear a -0.5D/+1.5D bifocal for example. I don't know your visual acuity, but having less than 20/40 vision is rather discomforting to the visual system and accomplishes nothing. So try a weaker minus on top that corrects your vision to 20/30-20/40.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 05:12:43 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: weird vision/watery vision almost gone
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2015, 05:02:20 AM »
@CapitalPrince

I'm at a plateau at 20/25. I don't wear glasses anymore at day (I also don't drive!). At night I wear -0.25D, my older undercorrection glasses.