Author Topic: Why not tell us what you think?  (Read 2080 times)

Offline OtisBrown

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Why not tell us what you think?
« on: October 19, 2015, 12:00:57 PM »
Subject:  I have talked to a number of you privately.

Why not express YOUR opinions here.

Remember, I do not ask you to tell me your visual acuity - because it does not matter to me.  I only ask that you have the competence to self-check your own Snellen, exceed the 20/40 line, and go pass the STATE DMV test.  An optometrist measurement does not mean anything.


Offline rtdfgdfgdfgdfg

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Re: Why not tell us what you think?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2015, 03:47:53 PM »
I think there is too much focus on helping people who are 20/40 .

People at 20/400 and 20/200 seem to have the most problems.


Offline Blue Eyes

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Re: Why not tell us what you think?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2015, 11:28:39 AM »
I totally agree.  I think that most people that are 20/40 don't even come to these forums. And the ones that do are looking for a quicker fix then even more glasses or being told the answer is to print out a Snellen and more glasses.

Offline User1235

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Re: Why not tell us what you think?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2015, 05:44:51 AM »
I guess Otis only restricts to people with 20/40 as he is constantly "attacked" by non-believers and doesn't want to make too big a claim.Technically he could extend the range by a bit but i feel that it makes sense.No one can claim that every one will be cured,maybe some with -9 or -10 might not even be able to make a full recovery.But it is also true that those with 20/40 isn't the ones with the biggest problem.

Just a side note i have been experiencing some double vision which is slowly resolving.I am wearing a -2.50 left(dont know about astig) and a -2 on my right eye.I am thinking of stepping down by another .50 but i dont think i have any old glasses for that.The next oldest is probably -1.50 both eyes and i think it might be too big a leap for my left eye. Any help?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 05:47:54 AM by User1235 »

Offline rtdfgdfgdfgdfg

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Re: Why not tell us what you think?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2015, 08:02:12 AM »
but most people are 20/400, this is the most common prescription , -4

20/40, you can at least prevent it


Offline Hillyman

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Re: Why not tell us what you think?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2015, 08:47:47 PM »
As others have commented, people in this forum probably have higher degrees of myopia, worse than 20/40 (diopter corrections more in the minus 4 to 10, I suspect). I am at -4 or so, and I am most interested in thoughtful exchanges about approaches and new thinking that might get me to better acuity or just how to see with less stress and more joy. Otis's entries do not touch on these.

After my first few visits to the forum, I learned skip over his entries since they almost always get turned into some screed against ODs, and there is little by way of new information to add to the collective wisdom of this forum.

I did a quick scan of the first page of this forum at this writing, and out of about 20, 9 are started by Otis Brown. On the second, 12 out of 20 are his. However, each entry has only one or two responses; not infrequently, they are Otis's own responses to his starting entry.  This hogging by Otis makes the forum decidedly one-sided and uninteresting, especially given that his message seems to always be (with annoying quotes supposedly for "emphasis"?):

1) Never trust ODs; do "your" own measurements
2) Go for "prevention" if you are 20/40
3) Never trust ODs; print your own Snellen chart
4) He cannot promise a "cure"
5) Never trust ODs; they are out to make a quick buck and don't care about prevention
6) See 1 to 5.

The site would be much leaner but probably much more lively and thought-provoking without Otis making it his personal soap box.

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Why not tell us what you think?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2015, 03:30:44 AM »
Subject: Here is what I think - and thank the OD who explained these issues to me.

I simply do no say this ... but that is your choice as to what you want to believe.

1) Never trust ODs; do "your" own measurements

a)  What the ODs state is that the "minus" is a a poor idea.  But equally, that the public they serve - demands the minus lens.

2) Go for "prevention" if you are 20/40

a)  That is because of the proven fact that if you choose to do nothing (at 20/40, and in high school) your refraction will go down at a rate of -1/2 diopter per year, for each year in high school and college.  But that is your choice also.

3) Never trust ODs; print your own Snellen chart

a) What I said was FIRST check your own Snellen. THEN go to an OD and see what he measures.  This is because I know of one man who had a -3 diopter prescription, but when he checked he could read the 20/40 line.  So what should you trust, and who should you trust?  Try trusting yourself first.

4) He cannot promise a "cure"

a) I totally agree with that statement.  This is because I regard the plus as "pure prevention".  It is like wearing "hearing protectors" in a high noise environment.  Clearly, you can never "prescribe hearing protectors".  That is a matter of personal, educated judgment.

5) Never trust ODs; they are out to make a quick buck and don't care about prevention

a) Some do care. But they just "give up" on prevention - because they know that no one will wear, "hearing protectors" in a high noise environment. They only deal with the consequences (loss of hearing) AFTER you have never worn hearing protectors, and are deaf.  Then there is no choice by hearing aids.

6) See 1 to 5.

But, for your interest:

http://endmyopia.org/us-national-academy-of-sciences-near-work-causes-myopia/

Enjoy,

« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 03:34:07 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline strongmama

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Re: Why not tell us what you think?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2015, 04:51:20 AM »
Preaching to the choir? Yes. Too much? Sometimes.
But I understand that Otis repeats his message over and over because it is something that needs to be said and is so often not said or ignored. I am very happy to see his similar posts over at endmyopia.org where new people are more likely to be seeking help and hearing these ideas for the first time. Yes, you do have to read between the lines with the 20/40 and other medical disclaimers; it really is up to you and your own motivation.

Otis, I will be a fan forever. I love what you're trying to do, and I hope more people read your book about Sterling Colgate!

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Why not tell us what you think?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2015, 07:20:05 AM »
Hi -

I obviously limit myself to about 20/30 to 20/60, (self-measured -1 to -2 diopters.) This is because I do not want to "set up" excessive expectations.

To clarify these issues, I post them on my site.

https://myopiafree.wordpress.com/

Prevention is going to mean long-term plus wear by the person himself.  I also suggest, for the highly motivated "young person", that the actually put up a Snellen, and have the goal of exceeding the 20/40 line (at least), and continue to wear the plus, and exceed the 20/30 line - under THEIR control.

What I know NOW, is that if I do not keep 'after myself' to wear the plus in that manner, I will LOSE my distant vision at a rate of -1/2 diopter per year for each year in school and college.

That is the final truth about the extremely difficult problem.  From the above report, no optometrist is going to tell you this.  Further, if you start wearing that minus lens (all the time) your distant vision goes down much more rapidly.

I have no problem facing these facts.  But an OD will never trust you to wear the plus for the long-term, which is required if you are in school.

I regret the people who take "offense", to this type of science.  But then, then should  not complain about their slow lost of their distant vision, as they go though the college years. 

Here are some remarks by Jake on his site:

http://endmyopia.org/from-2-25-to-no-glasses-clear-flashes/

I am not excessively concerned about "clear flashes".  I am concerned about a person taking the time to objectively read the 20/40 line (or better).  Staring from that point (in high school), can result in a slow change, of about one diopter in one year.  Thus, for the truly determined person, you can get into the 20/25 to 20/20 range.  Then, because of that PROVEN -1/2 diopter per year, you must continue to wear the plus.

I know from the reaction of many people posting here - that they will "choke" or "reject" that idea.  But then you can blame the optometrist about this issue.  The optometrist can follow you around, and remind you, "Johnnie, put on those +2.5 when you read".  If you do not, your Snellen will go far below 20/40 - which is exactly is what is going to happen to your vision. 

But - as your continue to wear the plus (though the school years), you will SLOWLY begin to see the 20/25 to 20/20 line.  It is at that point that you will begin to see "naked eye", clear flashes - and I mean, read the 20/18 and 20/15 line - as I do it now.





Preaching to the choir? Yes. Too much? Sometimes.
But I understand that Otis repeats his message over and over because it is something that needs to be said and is so often not said or ignored. I am very happy to see his similar posts over at endmyopia.org where new people are more likely to be seeking help and hearing these ideas for the first time. Yes, you do have to read between the lines with the 20/40 and other medical disclaimers; it really is up to you and your own motivation.

Otis, I will be a fan forever. I love what you're trying to do, and I hope more people read your book about Sterling Colgate!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 07:28:06 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline User1235

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Re: Why not tell us what you think?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2015, 05:12:08 AM »
As others have commented, people in this forum probably have higher degrees of myopia, worse than 20/40 (diopter corrections more in the minus 4 to 10, I suspect). I am at -4 or so, and I am most interested in thoughtful exchanges about approaches and new thinking that might get me to better acuity or just how to see with less stress and more joy. Otis's entries do not touch on these.

After my first few visits to the forum, I learned skip over his entries since they almost always get turned into some screed against ODs, and there is little by way of new information to add to the collective wisdom of this forum.

I did a quick scan of the first page of this forum at this writing, and out of about 20, 9 are started by Otis Brown. On the second, 12 out of 20 are his. However, each entry has only one or two responses; not infrequently, they are Otis's own responses to his starting entry.  This hogging by Otis makes the forum decidedly one-sided and uninteresting, especially given that his message seems to always be (with annoying quotes supposedly for "emphasis"?):

1) Never trust ODs; do "your" own measurements
2) Go for "prevention" if you are 20/40
3) Never trust ODs; print your own Snellen chart
4) He cannot promise a "cure"
5) Never trust ODs; they are out to make a quick buck and don't care about prevention
6) See 1 to 5.

The site would be much leaner but probably much more lively and thought-provoking without Otis making it his personal soap box.

I do find the forum quite quiet now,that is compared to when it first started.I read through the eyesight without glasses thread and i find that the 'old guys' like jansen used to post and talk about eyesight health quite often.Mr Otis of course was always there.I do of course skip some of his posts as i agree they are repetitive but i guess it is to emphasise and put across his point.I mean we didn't really treasure our eyesight till we lost it right?I used to believe that it was not important and would brush my dad's advice off whenever he tells me not to play computer games for hours and hours.

I would love to see some disccussion 'about approaches and new thinking'  but sadly as i have said the forum is awfully quiet.Maybe we can talk about the daily posts on endmyopia?Or just share our thoughts and our progress like what our eyes feel or something like that.

I'll start it off.I have just switched to a plus 1.25left and plus 1.75 right for near work.I kinda feel like my eyesight have deteriorated as i am studying hard everyday now(last minute revision for my major exam).But previous experiences include pressure behind my eye and sometimes weird feelings at the back of my head.I hope you guys can take part in the discussion.