Author Topic: This method makes alot of sense yet...  (Read 3180 times)

Offline gekonus

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This method makes alot of sense yet...
« on: January 26, 2016, 11:16:34 AM »
This method makes a lot of sense and I really appreciate Todd for his video and explanation.
For some unknown reason, this does not work for me permanently. no matter what I do, Print pushing at the edge of blur or with +1.5 plus lenses, NOTHING works for me, my snellen never gets better for more than a few seconds and this has been for a year and a half now.

Im -1D left and -0.75D right, if anybody's wondering.

My vision is always 20/40 - 20/50 on average, but never improves in a permanent way.

I am extremely disappointed and don't know where to go on from here. I tried everything already. Im happy for some people here who make progress, I don't know why cant I. Maybe its genetics, maybe its too late for me(Im 20 years old), only god knows.


Offline gekonus

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2016, 07:55:35 AM »
People here succeeded with this (Alex_myopic and caimanjosh) Im happy for them.
I almost give up hope by now..

Offline HansK

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2016, 10:24:51 AM »
Hi gekonus,

I feel with you. A few questions:

Does blur clear up (or the image gets sharper) when you do print pushing?

Apart from print pushing, do you use no glasses at all? Living in blur is not a great idea. That can prevent you making progress. How should your brain know what is "correct vision" and what is not? Just (excessive) blur will do nothing. You also need clear vision. This is important. CLEAR VISION, with access to some blur. If you have the attitude that sharp vision is bad in terms of myopia reversal, get rid of it.

You have a mild prescription, and that part of myopia reversal (known as "the last diopter") is much harder than the higher cases, often due to ciliary myopia which is easier to reverse.

You can also follow Jake Steiner on twitter and ask him if he has any tips for you. As you are not a member of his program, he will probably not help you like his students, but maybe he can give you hints.

Kind regards,
Hans

Kind regards,
Hans

Offline gekonus

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2016, 11:23:32 AM »
It clears up whenever I blink, and sometimes it clears up even if I don't. but no matter what, after usually a few blinks the improved vision effect is gone.
The longest I ever had a clearer vision was around 30 mins, where I just DID NOT BLINK and somehow my eyes got into focus and I could hold it for a bit, felt something inside the eye too. But this effect disappeared aswell after a while and its very tough for me to get it back.

I have 2 pairs with refuced prescriptions that I bought (-0.75L -0.5R = 20/25 vision indoors    ,  -0.5L  -0.25R = 20/35 vision indoors ) that I sometimes use. Should I use the weaker pair when Im outside? All the time?
Its definitely very difficult to see stuff at night, my vision is very bad at night.

What else is there to try? Havent I try everything already? Isnt it possible that Im just an unlucky person when it comes to eyesight and genetics?

Offline HansK

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2016, 11:58:54 AM »
Hi,

we are individuals. If you want to have more muscles, you have to stimulate them. But how? Each body responds differently. It's true that many things are in common, but you have to find the right kind of stimulus to get more muscles.

The same with your eyes. While someone can tolerate a little bit more blur, the other one can't.

You say you use your reduced prescriptions "sometimes". What do you mean?

Important rule: You need clear vision most of the time. Ideally, you would be at D1 (your far-point) and then occasionally see the beginning of D2 (a slight blur immediately after D1, maybe you wouldn't even notice it if you did not pay attention to it) whenever you feel for it.

Again: most of your time, you should see clearly. Better for your eyes, for your brain and for you also. And then, whenever you want to challenge your eyes a bit, go to your blur horizon (from D1 to D2) and try to clear up the blur (close-up or distance vision). Prescriptions help you as you can create your own blur horizon (how far do I need to see clearly?).

So just wear enough prescription that you see clearly up to that distance you look at and then occasionally challenge your eyes. Clear vision is not a bad thing. Extended close-up (with the wrong prescription) is what you do not want.

Kind regards,
Hans


Offline gekonus

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2016, 12:25:14 PM »
But Im afraid of clear vision because clear vision means strain for the eye muscles . lets assume I wear my weak pair of glasses which with it I see 20/35 (Everything is clear up to 2 meters). whenever I look at even 1.80m for example, Im applying negative stimulus for the eyes. that is why Im afraid of clear vision

Offline HansK

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2016, 12:57:29 PM »
Hi,

read the following links:

http://endmyopia.org/bates-method-no-glasses-vs-glasses-the-blur-horizon/
http://endmyopia.org/qa-does-blur-stress-and-how-much-focus-is-too-much-focus/

Why should clear vision mean strain for your eyes? That makes no sense. You want to reverse your myopia to see clearly. Would that mean - when you would have reversed it - strain for ever?

Your eye has a ciliary muscle (it's your focusing muscle). The further away you look, the less it has to contract. If you spend a lot at close-up activities (without the right prescription), the muscle will eventually spasm because it has to contract a lot to give you sharp vision. THIS IS STRAIN. The extended staring at screens etc. without relaxation for your ciliary muscle is what you want to AVOID. Relaxation means your ciliary muscle goes back to its relaxed state (distance vision), so it will not spasm that otherwise would result in ciliary myopia.

If you do not have clear vision and then access to a little bit of blur, your brain has NO reference how your vision should be. You don't show your brain how the world should look like. It does not know WHAT is actually wrong. Blur is also STRAIN. You don't want to live in blur. There is no harm when you have clear vision.

Negative stimulus is when your focusing muscle has to contract a lot (close-up) for EXTENDED PERIODS.

If you have no myopia (0.0 diopters), looking at something 4 meters away from you does not mean you apply negative stimulus. Your focusing muscle is made to contract and relax. You need to balance that. Otherwise, everybody would be myopic.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 01:11:15 PM by HansK »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2016, 01:30:44 PM »
"I have 2 pairs with refuced prescriptions that I bought (-0.75L -0.5R = 20/25 vision indoors    ,  -0.5L  -0.25R = 20/35 vision indoors ) that I sometimes use."

With the above statement I think maybe you are not undercorrecting too much. I for years had forgotten 20/20 correction and was 20/30 or 20/25 until I got to 20/20 with the same reduced lenses and then immediately I would go for an 0.25 or 0,5D underoccorection. I didn't have to drive. This was for far vision. Jake and Mr Otis Brown even suggest undercorrection to 20/40 almost all the time. Someone may do print pushing with plus but I think some hours of 20/20 far vision correction might take the myopia rehab away. With full correction also one might sometimes look near so there is a hyperopic defocus at least for peripheral vision.

But if I misunderstood and you wear no glasses at all when you are more than 20/40 myopic then this is bad too as HansK mentioned.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 01:46:39 PM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016, 01:56:18 PM »
Hi Alex,

A believe and state that prevention is truly difficult.  It is not for the person who is casual about it.  Some things depend on the person being both objective an truly motivated.  No OD can supply that motivation.  I do not believe in running around with totally blurred out vision.  But I do believe in being legal. That mean self-checking at 20/40 OR BETTER.  That is worst case.

Only then, and by long-term wearing of a plus can  you get ANY results.  Few people have that motivation and persistence. My nephew had it - but success is his - to always exceed the 20/30 line - forever.

I always enjoy our conversations.

"I have 2 pairs with refuced prescriptions that I bought (-0.75L -0.5R = 20/25 vision indoors    ,  -0.5L  -0.25R = 20/35 vision indoors ) that I sometimes use."

With the above statement I think maybe you are not undercorrecting too much. I for years had forgotten 20/20 correction and was 20/30 or 20/25 until I got to 20/20 with the same reduced lenses and then immediately I would go for an 0.25 or 0,5D underoccorection. I didn't have to drive. This was for far vision. Jake and Mr Otis Brown even suggest undercorrection to 20/40 almost all the time. Someone may do print pushing with plus but I think some hours of 20/20 far vision correction might take the myopia rehab away. With full correction also one might sometimes look near so there is a hyperopic defocus at least for peripheral vision.

But if I misunderstood and you wear no glasses at all when you are more than 20/40 myopic then this is bad too as HansK mentioned.

Offline gekonus

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2016, 03:04:56 PM »
Hmm so you're saying being in the blur zone 100% of the time means strain too since the brain forgets what a clear picture is?
Also the thing with the pairs of glasses I have is, I ordered em with 0.25D dif on purpose, since my left eye is weaker, and when using the glasses, my left eye now sees a bit better and gets dominant (Which I hope does not confuse my brain since my brain is used to work with the right eye more).

Offline HansK

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2016, 03:30:56 PM »
Hmm so you're saying being in the blur zone 100% of the time means strain too since the brain forgets what a clear picture is?

Exactly. You should know that BLUR IS NOT NORMAL. Blur is not your friend. Occasionally, you want a bit of blur (not excessive) to clear up to apply positive stimulus. Do not accept any kind of blur, you should mainly see clearly up to the distance you are looking at to prevent overprescription.

Kind regards,
Hans

Offline gekonus

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Re: This method makes alot of sense yet...
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2016, 09:21:06 AM »
HansK, I just want to point out that I DO SEE some improvements sometimes with various methods, the problem is the improvements never lock up. they are NEVER permanent, and my vision will eventually get back to the average 20/50 vision.