Author Topic: Frustration and Vitality  (Read 7298 times)

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Frustration and Vitality
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2011, 03:16:47 AM »
Hi Shadow,
Subject: Frustration and Scientific Truth
The only time I truly got frustrated was when I asked a person in authority an honest question about the (potential) effect of a minus lens on the natural eye -- and had my intelligence insulted.
The person was in "authority" over me, so I could not question (at that time) his judgment -- yet I felt that he was wrong.  I found out that (in an office) people are not interested in scientific truth, only in telling convenient office fibs.
That type of frustration can give you the "vitality" to search for (deeper) scientific truth -- of wisdom, logic and science.
So if done correctly, you can guide your frustration to look for "new knowelge" that will indeed solve difficult problems -- in my opinion.  Otis

Offline shadowfoot

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Re: Frustration and Vitality
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2011, 07:02:49 AM »
Let me reiterate what I think Todd is saying.

If you are in a situation such as those described, simply using stoicism to "accept" the situation is not a good idea. However, neither is simply lashing out and defending yourself whenever you are slighted. That's a great way to get yourself killed. The intelligent use of stoicism allows you to be silent and stand the situation until the time is right and you have mustered your strength. By being strong on all accounts, you give yourself the best chance of changing the situation for the better.

Offline shadowfoot

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Re: Frustration and Vitality
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2011, 09:33:54 AM »
I have been thinking about this problem for a while now, and my thoughts on the matter have converged rather well with my thoughts on emotion and human relations. I have found a solution (that works for me at least) that allows me to handle these situations without feeling like an ass (if I were to return the favor, so to speak) or feeling like I have been trampled upon. To this end I am learning how to apply empathy. For example, lets say that someone I know snaps at me. In this scenario, I know that the person is normally soft-spoken and can very quickly work out that something in their life must have upset them enough, derailed their emotions enough, to act like that. At that point, it is very easy for me to feel sorry for the person, and pity how bad they must be feeling. When I truly feel sorry for someone, it is difficult to be mad at their actions (well, unless they are quite extreme, which I have not encountered). This works in a number of other similar situations as well. If someone I do not know says a mean word, I pity the life that lead them to such behavior. So this not only resolves my situation, but should make me a better, more understanding friend, and a kinder person.

To the end of learning empathy, hormesis is a wonderful tool. Simply take your normal hormetic experiments (maybe add a few), do them to the point of discomfort, and then imagine that feeling multiplied by various numbers. It is very humbling, but also strengthening.

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Frustration and Vitality
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2011, 03:49:27 PM »
Hi Shadow,
Subject: My philosophy of "helping people" with a problem.
I personally attempt to "reason-out" a problem.  I will help YOU if you are prepared to HELP YOURSELF.  It is far easier to say that -- than it is to do it.  In fact, most of my "attitude" comes from Dr. Bates:
As we know, Dr. Bates attempted to "change the mind" -- of his fellow doctors.  He fianlly "gave up" and said:

"You cannot by reasoning correct a man of an ill opinion which by reasoning he never acquired. We can also say that
neither by reasoning, nor by actual demonstration of the facts, can you convince some people that an opinion which they have accepted on authority is wrong."

William Bates

We are all diminished when a person of strong will is denied a "hearing" on his advocacy -- in my opinion.  My efforts and Todd's success is the first step to helping others -- to solve this problem by reason, science and facts.
Best,
Otis




I have been thinking about this problem for a while now, and my thoughts on the matter have converged rather well with my thoughts on emotion and human relations. I have found a solution (that works for me at least) that allows me to handle these situations without feeling like an ass (if I were to return the favor, so to speak) or feeling like I have been trampled upon. To this end I am learning how to apply empathy. For example, lets say that someone I know snaps at me. In this scenario, I know that the person is normally soft-spoken and can very quickly work out that something in their life must have upset them enough, derailed their emotions enough, to act like that. At that point, it is very easy for me to feel sorry for the person, and pity how bad they must be feeling. When I truly feel sorry for someone, it is difficult to be mad at their actions (well, unless they are quite extreme, which I have not encountered). This works in a number of other similar situations as well. If someone I do not know says a mean word, I pity the life that lead them to such behavior. So this not only resolves my situation, but should make me a better, more understanding friend, and a kinder person.

To the end of learning empathy, hormesis is a wonderful tool. Simply take your normal hormetic experiments (maybe add a few), do them to the point of discomfort, and then imagine that feeling multiplied by various numbers. It is very humbling, but also strengthening.

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Frustration and Vitality
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2011, 04:00:38 PM »
Hi Shadow,
Subject: ODs telling un-truths, to "sell themselves".
I hope you can watch this video.  The OD "explains" that a minus is "perfectly safe", and is not responsible for the problem of "progressive myopia".  But they reach this "conclusion" because THEY NEVER LOOK AT SCIENCE AND FACTS!!
Thus they tell you that 1)  Long-term close work has "no effect" on the natural eye's refractive state.  (That is an "office lie), which is followed by 2)  A minus lens has no effect on the eye's refractive state.  Now who is telling you the truth??  First the OD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-hUPMni1jw&feature=related
Then the effect of a minus on all natural eyes:
http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wildsoet/images/neg_lens_induce_myopia.swf
In fact, while "difficult" to inspire yourself to 1) Read your Snellen, 2) use a low-cost test lens) and 3) Teach yourself to use the plus if your Snellen is 20/40, there is no way that an OD will EVER HELP YOU WITH PREVENTION.  This is the bitter lesson I learned about the need for pure science, versus some "OD  in a box" telling me false ideas so they can feel "perfect" in their business.  Protect yourself my friend, and continue to develop your scientific knowleged of this crucial science.  Best, Otis

Offline Todd Becker

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Re: Frustration and Vitality
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2011, 07:25:42 PM »
I have been thinking about this problem for a while now, and my thoughts on the matter have converged rather well with my thoughts on emotion and human relations. I have found a solution (that works for me at least) that allows me to handle these situations without feeling like an ass (if I were to return the favor, so to speak) or feeling like I have been trampled upon. To this end I am learning how to apply empathy. For example, lets say that someone I know snaps at me. In this scenario, I know that the person is normally soft-spoken and can very quickly work out that something in their life must have upset them enough, derailed their emotions enough, to act like that. At that point, it is very easy for me to feel sorry for the person, and pity how bad they must be feeling. When I truly feel sorry for someone, it is difficult to be mad at their actions (well, unless they are quite extreme, which I have not encountered). This works in a number of other similar situations as well. If someone I do not know says a mean word, I pity the life that lead them to such behavior. So this not only resolves my situation, but should make me a better, more understanding friend, and a kinder person.

To the end of learning empathy, hormesis is a wonderful tool. Simply take your normal hormetic experiments (maybe add a few), do them to the point of discomfort, and then imagine that feeling multiplied by various numbers. It is very humbling, but also strengthening.

Shadowfoot,

I like your creative solution of using empathy to re-frame the anger and frustration of others.  It does three things: it redirects the typical reaction of resenting the anger by switching tracks and preventing that reaction; it does so by eliciting a very humanistic response, which brings you closer to understanding the other person and what may actually be going on that you don't see directly; and it provides a solution that does not diminish your integrity and self-respect.

I really like this approach and will try to bring it to mind next time I'm in a similar situation.

Todd