Author Topic: The Secret of Perfect Vision  (Read 39157 times)

Offline PROH

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2013, 08:48:59 PM »
Hi Steven

I am much worse than you .  Normally I keep

1) A pair by which I have 20/20 in day  20/25 in low light & use it outside for driving or for the moments when I need to have a clear image . Never use it indoor & close work.

2) Second pair by which I have 20/40 & use it outside for normal purpose & watching TV.

3) Third pair  by which I can read at about 40-60 cm my laptop for work.

Always try to balance both eye equally or somethimes give more privilege to weak . means if I have a strong & weak eye I keep the same difference of  power in each pair so that both eye work equally , otherwise the strong eye may improve faster than weak eye.

Normally order specs online to reduce cost

Proh

« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 01:56:51 AM by PROH »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2013, 06:28:42 PM »
Hi Proh,

I am often told that 1) Medical people don't advocate plus prevention 2) Long-term near has NO EFFECT on the refractive state of the eye.

Both these statements are false - as science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuMKV0_rV64

I am pleased that the "medical community" will now  help you child avoid entry into myopia.

Otis



Hi Steven

I am much worse than you .  Normally I keep

1) A pair by which I have 20/20 in day  20/25 in low light & use it outside for driving or for the moments when I need to have a clear image . Never use it indoor & close work.

2) Second pair by which I have 20/40 & use it outside for normal purpose & watching TV.

3) Third pair  by which I can read at about 40-60 cm my laptop for work.

Always try to balance both eye equally or somethimes give more privilege to weak . means if I have a strong & weak eye I keep the same difference of  power in each pair so that both eye work equally , otherwise the strong eye may improve faster than weak eye.

Normally order specs online to reduce cost

Proh



Offline Steven

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2013, 04:23:59 AM »
Hi Otis,

So,
I have gone yesterday and today to my technician.

I explained to him everything and i tried to convince him, but he said, as a friend, he understands what i want to do (reverse my myopia) but "legally" he can't prescribe me anything but full prescription, especially since he is not a doctor.

So we tested my eyes today.

These are my last 3 tests :

1.
The test was done in 2006. I used this from 2006 to late 2011 :
Spherical OD -4 OS - 4
Cylindrical OD -2 OS -2

2.

The test was done in early 2012. I used this from 2012 until late 2012  (i started using my eyes correctly / not using minus glasses / using plus lens ) :
Spherical OD -3.75 OS - 3
Cylindrical OD -2 OS -2

3.
This test was done Today in 2013. The result was :
Spherical OD -2.5 OS - 2.5
Cylindrical OD -1.5 OS -1.5

So today i got my best results, meaning i only need 2.5 to see perfect.
Unfortunately as i said the technician didn't want to prescribe undercorective. But i have his signature on the full prescription.

I will have to order my glasses online. It seems the only way right now.

I have a question for you Otis. Is Astigmatism (Cylindrical) reversible like normal Spherical myopia ?
If yes, does it go away with the same vision "hygiene" i use for myopia ?

Thank You so much.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 04:31:34 AM by Steven »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2013, 10:04:30 AM »
Hi Steven,

So you want to "argue" with an OD, MD, Technician, who tells you that ALL PREVENTION IS ILLEGAL!  They you try to CONVINCE him that "even prevention from 20/40 is possible."  This always reminds me of the "Great Wizard of OZ".  If you truly believe him - then stop all this nonsense about prevention.  But here is my assessment of *me* getting into an argument with a person who believes his is a "perfect expert".
++++++
Never combat any man’s opinion; for though you reached the age of Methuselah, you would never have done setting him right upon all the absurd things that he believes.

It is also well to avoid correcting people’s mistakes in conversation, however good your intentions may be; for it is easy to offend people, and difficult, if not impossible to mend them.

If you feel irritated by the absurd remarks of two people whose conversations you happen to over-hear, you should imagine that you are listening to the dialogue of two fools in a comedy. Probatum est.

The man who comes into this would with the notion that he is really going to instruct in matters of importance, may thank his stars if he escapes with a whole skin.

Arthur Shopenhauer,  1788 – 1860
++++++
Let me repeat - I am good friends with ODs and MDs. But I do all my own measurements AT HOME - with my own trial lens kit.  I always know by visual acuity BEFORE I do, and if I get a "bad astig (cyl) prescription", I take the script home and put it on the table.  Then I read my Snellen (at 20/40 or better), and if I should need a -1/2 diopter lens - from MY OWN MEASUREMENT - I just order it from Zennioptica for $10.  I truly do not "need" ODs to tell me that 1) Prevention is IMPOSSIBLE and 2) It is illegal for them to help me with true-prevention.  You will have to make your own choice on this matter.

I will respond to your other points - in due course.

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2013, 10:14:22 AM »
Hi Steve,

It is easy to get "fearful" of certain words like, "astigmatism" (Cyl.).  This is a very difficult measurement to make, and is almost always NOT NECESSARY.  It is very difficult to do with ANY ACCURACY. But don't believe me - look at this measurement arrangement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yB90F8zrow

Further, it is very rare that ANY ASTIGMATISM will prevent  20/25 to 20/20 vision.  MY OPINION?  You must have some astig. in each eye - understood. But when you look WITH BOTH EYES OPEN, the brain over-lays both images in your mind, and cancels out ANY ASTIGMATISM IN EACH EYE.

I ALWAYS insist on NO ASTIG MEASUREMENT.  (Use spherical equivalent.)  If they don't agree - I go to another OD who will give me what I request.

COMMENT ON YOUR FIRST MEASUREMENT:  -4 D with -2 astig.  Convert to "Spherical Equivalent", by taking 1/2 the astig and adding it. So you were a -5.0 diopter myope in 2006.  That is  your "stating point".

It addition to excssive over-prescriptions, you also encounter excessive astigmitism "corrections".  You will have to make your own "educated" judgment on these issues.  I truly do not think I can be of any help to you at this point.








Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2013, 10:33:35 AM »
Dear Steven,

I have seen so many terrible over prescriptions - that I just gave up going to ODs.  REMEMBER, I am always OBLIGATED to PASS THE DMV 20/40 line.  I always check. Here is how I personally verify my refractive STATE. As an engineer, I trust my OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENTS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrfuLuibclY

In fact, if you wish to order a -2.25 D, after you make this personal measurement - by all means - do so. But I assume you will only wear it for the 2 hours you might spend driving a car.  Since you have 20/60 vision, there would be no reason to wear a minus at any other time.  I think if you just did that, you would find your Snellen would "improve" to 20/50 in about two months.

Good luck,

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2013, 10:42:32 AM »
Hi Steve,

An excess over-prescription? You decide:

3.
This test was done Today in 2013. The result was :
Spherical OD -2.5 OS - 2.5
Cylindrical OD -1.5 OS -1.5

You have CONFIRMED 20/60 VISION ON YOUR OWN SNELLEN.  You have proven to yourself that a -1.75 will probably get you to 20/20, when you only require 20/40 or better. 

Here is the spherical-equivalent of these two measurements:

-2.5 D (Sph) + 0.5 * -1.5 = -3.25 diopters, both eyes.

It looks like you are over-prescribed by -1.5 diopters.  This is why I use my own "spherical lenses" to measure my refractive STATE - MYSELF. 

I am certain your OD (technician) believes you should wear your -3.25 all the time.  He assumes that your world is totally "blurred out".

You have a major "life-choice" to make here - and I can't make it for you.

If it were me I would  1)Keep that Snellen always on the wall. 2) Put a bright light on it 3) Check each day at 20 feet. 4) Avoid wearing any minus lens (since I have 20/60). 

That is, in effect, like wearing a plus all the time - for now.  The nice thing is this - IT TAKES NO EFFORT AT ALL FOR YOU TO DO THAT MUCH.

You are educated and smart. I don't let others to TELL ME WHAT TO DO.

Offline Steven

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2013, 11:02:37 AM »
Thank you Otis.

Yes they gave me initially 0.5 and 0.75 astigmatism when i was 9 years old. Then 1, then 1.5 etc 2.

But that woman ophthalmologist i had was known to give over prescriptions. I was a kid i never knew what is best for me.

Now i know.

If astigmatism grows then it can also be reversed. I am convinced my astigmatism was induced. I do not ever want to deal with cylindrical lenses again. They are always hurting my eyes.

-1.75 will probably give me clear 20/40 since i am at 2.50 now. (and some astigmatism is not helping at all)

I am not using any glasses right now. Only strong plus from time to time.

I only hope the astigmatism is reversible like myopia.

What is the real cause of astigmatism ?
Wearing a cylindrical lens when you need no cylindrical lens will make you more astigmatic ?
Are there such things as plus cylindrical lenses ?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 11:11:45 AM by Steven »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2013, 11:16:31 AM »
Hi Steven,

I truly think that ALL NORMAL EYES HAVE SOME ASTIGMATISM.  The way I "deal" with it, is to just us a "spherical" lens on myself.  (As I think you should.)  If a spherical lens will clear the 20/25 to 20/20 line for you - I would ignore any "assumed" astigmatism I *MIGHT* have.

From the video I presented it is VERY DIFFICULT TO MEASURE - AND PRONE TO EXCESSIVE ERRORS.  It is just not worth any worry about it.

I was very pleased to find out you can objectively read the 20/60 line. That means THERE IS HOPE.  My *step* would be to 1) Avoid any wearing of a minus - except for driving. 2) Squint - if necessary - for some objects.  3) Outside exercise -tennis in season. 4) MONITOR THAT SNELLEN.  5) Do not expect "rapid progress".  6) Expect reading the 20/50 line in about one month.  7) Get a (weak) +1.25 dioper for close work - when you get to 20/50. 

That is what *I* would do.

Offline Steven

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2013, 11:44:48 AM »
Great advices Otis Brown.

I really appreciate them and your effort of writing here.

***

Otis i was wondering, do you use any plus lens for close activity ? (since i assume that you are already affected by Presbyopia)

Or did you manage to have perfect close vision by putting from time to time minus lenses ? From my understanding Hyperopia & Presbyopia are different, obviously.

Hyperopia can be treated with minus lenses and it's the opposite of myopia.

Can you share your thoughts about Presbyopia ?
I mean, can you get over 40+ years and still l be able to see clear at distance and close forever ?

Offline Steven

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2013, 11:58:48 AM »
Otis, Take a look here please : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGdWAdtOEgA

About Astigmatism how it appears, how to fix it.

What do you think about the information in the video ? (you need to put quality to 1080p or 720p to see the text clearly.)

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2013, 01:40:35 PM »
Hi Steven,

Please watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbqhW08sH0


This is the "Astigmatism" (Cyl.) measurement.  Take a look. If you want to do this to yourself - that would be great.  But if you can clear your 20/20 line with a "Spherical" lens (which I THINK YOU CAN - IF YOU GET THE LENS TO CHECKING), I *personally* would not "bother" with this test. The OD's LOVE THIS TEST.  I think it is TOTALLY NOT NECESSARY.  If you are truly interested, the obtain the trial-frame, and make the measurement yourself.  I simply have no interest - as long as I can clear my 20/20 line with my own lens.


Otis, Take a look here please : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGdWAdtOEgA

About Astigmatism how it appears, how to fix it.

What do you think about the information in the video ? (you need to put quality to 1080p or 720p to see the text clearly.)

Offline Steven

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2013, 07:45:07 AM »
Hi Steven,

Please watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbqhW08sH0


This is the "Astigmatism" (Cyl.) measurement.  Take a look. If you want to do this to yourself - that would be great.  But if you can clear your 20/20 line with a "Spherical" lens (which I THINK YOU CAN - IF YOU GET THE LENS TO CHECKING), I *personally* would not "bother" with this test. The OD's LOVE THIS TEST.  I think it is TOTALLY NOT NECESSARY.  If you are truly interested, the obtain the trial-frame, and make the measurement yourself.  I simply have no interest - as long as I can clear my 20/20 line with my own lens.


Otis, Take a look here please : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGdWAdtOEgA

About Astigmatism how it appears, how to fix it.

What do you think about the information in the video ? (you need to put quality to 1080p or 720p to see the text clearly.)

Basically, i don't want to clear my astigmatism with extra spherical lens. I want to clear myopia by using the plus lens and avoiding spherical minus lens AND at the same time i want to find a way to clear my astigmatism separately from myopia.

Can you take another look at the video i posted (the one you need to put quality of video in 720p or 1080p to read it).

Could that work to clear astigmatism ?
Is that the real cause of it ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGdWAdtOEgA

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2013, 08:13:05 AM »
Dear Steven,

Subject: My opinion on *MY* vision, and "Astigmatism".

I think we FEAR words, when we truly do NOT understand them.  Words like "hyperopia, myopia, nearsightedness, anisotropia, pesudo-myopia, exophoria, esophoria".  The list is endless.  I know you will have your own ideas on this subject.

For me, as an engineer, I concentrate on ONE THING, getting my Snellen to 20/40 - or better.  I know that the above words, (including "Cyl." have profound distortions in them.) To avoid un-necessary conflict, I would concentrate on ONLY getting your 20/40 line clear.  EVERYTHING ELSE IS AN UN-NECESSARY DISTRACTION.  "Astigmatism" will never prevent you from getting to 20/20, and a positive refractive STATE.  Once you get to 20/20, (pass all DMV and PILOT TESTS), you can "worry" about ANY residual "astigmatism" you might actually have.

I concentrate on OBJECTIVE REQUIREMENTS - that I MUST PASS.  All normal eyes have SOME astigmatism. The FAA requires LESS THAN 1 diopters of astigmatism (As I recall.) It is NEVER a problem for professional pilots - so why are you concerned about it.

I am not critical of you - I just do not what you distracted about a subject that is not revalent to reaching an  OBJECTIVE, PRACTICAL GOAL IN YOUR LIFE.

Solutions are TOTALLY PERSONAL.  Therefore I just prevent OBJECTIVE FACTS, and HOPE the person understands them, and can achieve a reasonable personal goal.

Otis

Offline Steven

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Re: The Secret of Perfect Vision
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2013, 08:37:06 AM »
Dear Steven,

Subject: My opinion on *MY* vision, and "Astigmatism".

I think we FEAR words, when we truly do NOT understand them.  Words like "hyperopia, myopia, nearsightedness, anisotropia, pesudo-myopia, exophoria, esophoria".  The list is endless.  I know you will have your own ideas on this subject.

For me, as an engineer, I concentrate on ONE THING, getting my Snellen to 20/40 - or better.  I know that the above words, (including "Cyl." have profound distortions in them.) To avoid un-necessary conflict, I would concentrate on ONLY getting your 20/40 line clear.  EVERYTHING ELSE IS AN UN-NECESSARY DISTRACTION.  "Astigmatism" will never prevent you from getting to 20/20, and a positive refractive STATE.  Once you get to 20/20, (pass all DMV and PILOT TESTS), you can "worry" about ANY residual "astigmatism" you might actually have.

I concentrate on OBJECTIVE REQUIREMENTS - that I MUST PASS.  All normal eyes have SOME astigmatism. The FAA requires LESS THAN 1 diopters of astigmatism (As I recall.) It is NEVER a problem for professional pilots - so why are you concerned about it.

I am not critical of you - I just do not what you distracted about a subject that is not revalent to reaching an  OBJECTIVE, PRACTICAL GOAL IN YOUR LIFE.

Solutions are TOTALLY PERSONAL.  Therefore I just prevent OBJECTIVE FACTS, and HOPE the person understands them, and can achieve a reasonable personal goal.

Otis


I am concerned about it because if i could get rid of it i could already watch TV at a more reasonable distance, see the computer text on my computer monitor much easier, clear the Snellen much easier.

If the video shows the real cause and fix, then i can get rid of astigmatism and that would be an advantage.

Can you confirm Otis, that the information in the video i showed to you, presents the real cause of astigmatism and the fix they present is the right one ?

If my myopia goes to 0 and i still have -1 or -1.5 astigmatism, how do i get rid of it ?

Thank you.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 08:51:46 AM by Steven »