Why do we LOVE the minus - and hate the plus?

[peterg]

John, I recommend you get registered with Frauenfeld.  The quality of his resources are unparalleled in my opinion.  There are a few people in the forum over there that are currently undergoing significant changes.

Are suggesting I buy one of the monthly plans? Is that what you did? If so, for how many months?

If you can just register for the forum for free, I think you will find it very valuable.  I think you should be able to do that for free.  You will find he will respond to you, and give direct answers to your direct questions.  It was a real struggle to get direct answers when you ask direct questions on this topic as you have probably learned.

That might be correct.  I estimate I was at most 20/150 because I though I could see the big E.  But when looking at the big E (20/200) it was extremely blurry and I would be lying if I said it was a good quality E I was seeing.  More like a triple or quadruple layered E.

So you were still using your glasses (or contacts) for driving, right?

Yes of course.  Glasses only.   I only wore contacts for occasional sports and not at all since I started my myopia recovery program over a year ago.  I found I could shoot baskets just as well without correcting my vision since I started this program.

My opinion is, if you can bring your monitor closer so as not to affect your ergonometrics, than that is the better way to go.  The one thing Frauenfeld has discussed, is that you don't need a lot of stimulus - I went over the top based on how he recommends people to go about it.  Todd also says the same, although less formally.  If I was starting again, I'd definately give Frauenfeld's suggestions a go.

Do you mean that you gave yourself too much stimulus, according to Frauenfeld?

Peter, thank you for your responses.

What he has said he has seen in practise is that it works best with not too much stimulus.  Although he says myopia is often caused by strain, the stimulus we use to improve on myopia is also a strain.  He suggests that you don't actually need a lot of that stimulus.  More so strategic use of it.   He admits that there are many ways  to improve.  His protocol is just what he has found the most effective in his years of practise.

I believe Todd alludes to a similar strategy in some of his posts. 

Peter

[johnlink]

What [Frauenfeld] has said he has seen in practise is that it works best with not too much stimulus.  Although he says myopia is often caused by strain, the stimulus we use to improve on myopia is also a strain.  He suggests that you don't actually need a lot of that stimulus.  More so strategic use of it.   He admits that there are many ways  to improve.  His protocol is just what he has found the most effective in his years of practise.

I believe Todd alludes to a similar strategy in some of his posts. 

Here's a relevant passage from Todd at http://gettingstronger.org/2010/07/improve-eyesight-and-throw-away-your-glasses/:

For myope engaging in distance activities (such as driving or viewing presentations), either no lenses or undercorrected lenses are recommended, though very mild plus lenses (less than +1 diopters) can be used when the myopia has been significantly reduced. The key is that the eye will adapt and remodel only when subjected to mildly uncomfortable stress.  If the stress is excessive, the eye gives up and no progress is made.  This principle is very similar that followed by weight lifters, who understand the importance of slight, but not excessive, overload.

This sort of thinking is completely in line with my work as a Feldenkrais Practitioner. See http://www.feldenkrais.com/method/the_feldenkrais_method_of_somatic_education/. I help my clients to expand on the abilities they already have, always looking for a challenge that is interesting and achievable but not overwhelming.

[peterg]

My far point is at about 12 to 13 inches so I can work on the computer without my contacts but my monitor is about 22 inches away so I need to lean in. I often do that, but I'd rather be able to sit upright. If I'm wearing my contacts for close work I will now ALWAYS use the +1.75 reading glasses that will soon arrive from www.zennioptical.com. Those glasses, in combination with my contacts, will put my far point just in front of my monitor, giving me a little blur.

During your near work, with contacts on, you will have to figure out a good way to do "distance pulling".  I'm not sure if you plan to do that also with +1.75 on top of your contacts.   That was a critical component of what helped me.  Near work at edge of blur print pushing for 10-15 minute chunks followed by naked eye distance gazing (distance pulling) for a minute or so trying to make something past my far point clear.  I felt those were two equally important components for my recovery and went hand in hand.

[Todd Becker]

John and Peter,

Excellent discussion.  I agree with your above description of the general strategy that you attribute to both Alex and me.  Based upon a similar "offline" discussion I had with John, I started a separate thread on the question of the optimal level of blur.   I'd be interested in your further thoughts:

http://forum.gettingstronger.org/index.php/topic,450.msg3799.html#msg3799

Todd

P.S.  Glad to have you both posting on the Forum.  It's good to see a little liveliness here again.  I'm not the sort to pump up my forum -- it really depends on interested "volunteers" like you to keep things going. 

[trw]

Well, I just got back from an optometrist appointment. For those interested in some of my results now like john, todd, and otis, and a few others who may have commented or indirectly spawned off onto other topics, I made significant progress I am very glad to report. I've been doing Bates style exercises, plus lens therapy, pinhole glasses, and even the use of an eyepatch, which are just some of the tools in my arsenal to improve things. I've been doing then for 2 years now. My right eye went down a whole diopter from -2.75 to -1.75 (I really had not expected that great of a drop in my bad eye and even had to take a double take at the prescription and almost asked the doctor if he was sure that was correct. I can't remember being under -2.25, and attained a half diopter improvement on top of that. And to be honest I had thought little had changed in that eye. On the left, I had actually expected a better improvemen, since it is my better eye and seems to respond better to exercise, but that one changed from -1.50 to -1.25. No astigmatism has developed, so I consider these great documentation of the health of my eyes. I ended up getting the glasses prescription filled for use at night driving and darker cloudy days when it is raining out, just to be safe. I'm even more determined to continue working on this since I've had some official proof that it is possible and it just wasn't my perceptions, but an actual acuity change. Thanks for listening, and I hope to participate more in these discussions.
-Tim

[johnlink]

Well, I just got back from an optometrist appointment. For those interested in some of my results now like john, todd, and otis, and a few others who may have commented or indirectly spawned off onto other topics, I made significant progress I am very glad to report. I've been doing Bates style exercises, plus lens therapy, pinhole glasses, and even the use of an eyepatch, which are just some of the tools in my arsenal to improve things. I've been doing then for 2 years now. My right eye went down a whole diopter from -2.75 to -1.75 (I really had not expected that great of a drop in my bad eye and even had to take a double take at the prescription and almost asked the doctor if he was sure that was correct. I can't remember being under -2.25, and attained a half diopter improvement on top of that. And to be honest I had thought little had changed in that eye. On the left, I had actually expected a better improvemen, since it is my better eye and seems to respond better to exercise, but that one changed from -1.50 to -1.25. No astigmatism has developed, so I consider these great documentation of the health of my eyes. I ended up getting the glasses prescription filled for use at night driving and darker cloudy days when it is raining out, just to be safe. I'm even more determined to continue working on this since I've had some official proof that it is possible and it just wasn't my perceptions, but an actual acuity change. Thanks for listening, and I hope to participate more in these discussions.
-Tim

Congratulations, Tim! Over what period of time did you go from (-2.75R, -1.50L) to (-1.75R, -1.25L)? I know you said you've been working to improve your vision for two years but I wonder whether that's also the length of time since you were (-2.75R, -1.50L).

[trw]

Thanks john. I've been learning and practicing different facets of natural vision training for almost two years. I started to investigate it in april 2011 after I had run out of money for contact lenses, and remember an old commercial in the 90s that talked about some sort of see clearly method. Perhaps it took less than all of that time up until my exam to reach my current state. It certainly seems so because I noticed significant improvement incrementally as the months went on. Perhaps in another few years I will get another official one, just to see how things "officially" are. Until then, perhaps I should take the advice of some here and invest in a lighted Snellen chart to make measurements myself.