Author Topic: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts  (Read 10239 times)

Offline SeekingKnowledge

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Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« on: February 22, 2011, 08:45:04 PM »
I have read with great interest every single page on this site and forum having to do with eyesight improvement but I haven't seen one topic addressed clearly... Using plus lenses while wearing contact lenses.

I am using the plus lenses every morning while I read for 1-3 hours without wearing contact lenses. Once I'm in the the middle of my day, however, it's pretty tough to continually remove my contacts every time I read close up.

Since the goal is to make one's eyes "think" they are looking far away while reading close up, is it ok to buy even stronger "plus" lenses that I can pull out throughout the day to wear over my contacts to make my eyes "think" they are looking far away?

For example, I have a -4 prescription and I'm using a +1 lens for reading in the morning when I'm not wearing contacts. I was thinking of using a +3 (or more) for use when my contacts are in.

Is this a good idea?

I'm really excited about the possibilities as this really goes far beyond eyesight and begins to demonstrate the unplumbed depths we all possess within us.

Offline jansen

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 09:12:35 PM »
Hello, Welcome to the forum! I myself am on the journey of improving my own eyesight using the plus lenses. Even though I don't wear contacts, I think I can still help you. Having a +3 pair of plus lens over a -4 pair of contacts is the equivalent of having a -1 prescription contacts, which may be too powerful when reading. I think it is good to start off with +2 or +1.5 glasses over your current contact prescription.

Offline Todd Becker

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2011, 09:32:47 PM »
Hi SeekingKnowledge.  I like your screen name and your desire to "plumb the depths". Welcome to this forum!  

I think that using plus lenses with contacts is one of the best applications of plus lenses, so I'm glad you started this thread.  I touched upon this approach in response to one of the questions posted on the main blog (not this forum), but its worth repeating and clarifying. Here is what I recommend:

1. For distance vision, consider switching to slightly undercorrected contact lenses.  So if you are using -4 lenses, get a new set that is -3.75 or -3.5.  That will get your eyes doing some work when you are driving, walking around or viewing presentations at work.  Be sure that this does not generate a "blur" -- just a slightly less sharp image.

2. For reading or close up work, choose some cheap plus lenses that -- when worn OVER your contacts -- produce a transition from "sharp" to "blurry" just beyond your comfortable reading distance (typically about 12-16 inches from your eyes).  See my advice in the above post to Jansen regarding how to find the right distance to "clear" text with plus lenses, and also his comments about what strength of plus lenses might be appropriate.

The beauty of this approach is that you never have to take out your contacts, and you use plus lenses only for reading and computer work.  As your eyesight improves (as your myopia weakens) you switch to progressively weaker minus contact lenses (moving down in steps of 0.5 diopters when ready), but keep using the same pair of plus lenses to maintain a steady blur transition at 12-16 inches.  

Let me know if this makes sense to you, or if you have any questions about it.

Todd
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 09:46:10 PM by Todd Becker »

Offline SeekingKnowledge

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 06:43:28 AM »
Thanks Jansen and Todd!

Everything you've both said made perfect sense.

I went out and purchased some +3.75 lenses and now use them whenever I read anything.

It's very convenient as I simply pull them out when needed. It's fantastic not having to remove my contacts and this will allow me to get in several additional hours per day of plus lens use.

I will be diligent about using the plus lenses and will certainly keep everyone updated on my progress.

My next step is to convince my eye doctor to write me a reduced contact lens prescription...

Offline Todd Becker

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 07:39:51 PM »
Good to hear, SeekingKnowledge.  If the prescription is only reduced by 0.50 diopters, you eye doctor should not have a problem with it. Or just ask the optician to undercorrect -- most of them will.  Keep us posted.

Offline SeekingKnowledge

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2011, 05:14:39 AM »
I have been following the protocol for about five weeks. I had noticed that things seemed particularly sharp after reading for a couple of hours in the morning with the plus lenses.

I used the Snellen at home but because my eyes were so bad, it was pretty tough to get good numbers (my prescription was -4 in both eyes).

I knew from reading Todd's posts that while looking far away he recopmmended no lenses or a weaker prescription and I felt that I really needed to do this to keep moving forward so I scheduled an appointment with my optometrist. I was also interested in getting an accurate reading of my eyesight on file.

I was expecting a bit of a fight when I told her what I was trying to do - walk out with a reduced prescription that would offer the proper hormetic stimulus.

Instead of a battle, she was fascinated with the concept and became really excited about the idea. She said that she liked being able to help someone actually get better for once and that she found the principle of hormesis  fascinating.

When she tested my eyes they had improved by .25 to .5 diopters which surprised us all (including my wife who was with me). After trying many diferent lenses, I settled on a -3, which gives me pretty good vision but also challenges me at distance. It makes things blurry but not so much that my eyes "shut down"(unless the distance is too great). I find it important to continually keep this principle in mind otherwise my eyes do seem to give up when something is just past the "point of blur". If I think of hormesis and apply some efffort, sometimes things come into focus.

In any case, while I can't be certain that the plus lense work I've done has improved my eyes for certain, it certainly looks like it has and I am determined to work my way back to not needed any corrective lenses.

I will keep pushing to reduce my prescription and return here to keep learning and submitting updates.

Todd and Otis - you are doing something truly amazing and it's a lot of fun to have this "secret knowledge" that exists in plain sight. It is also a strong testament to just how powerful the previously hidden force of hormesis is in our lives and it goes a long way in explaining so many things that science has puzzled over  (like the fact that vegetables are good for us because they are bad for us.)

I am humbled at where all of this will lead...

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2011, 08:20:43 PM »
Subject:  My respect for Jansen -- to do such excellent work.

Jansen, when he started was at about 20/80 -- by his own checking.  We were all encouraged by his slow but successful results.  (I consider getting to 20/50 in six months to be a major success.)  But I am very honest about the need for long-term commitment to wearing the plus to get beyond 20/50.  Sadly, he hit a the 20/50 "plateau", and simply stopped posting.  There is never any fault attached to this end of effort.  But I do regret it, since with continued use of the plus he would have gotten the 20/40 line clear -- in my opinion.

My nephew Keith seemed to have the "staying" power on this issue.  He simply watched his distant vision, and when it got "blurry" out there, he just started with the plus again.  He did this through high school, college, and the some post-college work.  When we met at my sister's house, and he sat down and read the newspaper, out would come the "plus" and he would read through it.  We also put up a Snellen and checked his visual acuity at 20/20.  I had him use some trial (or check) lenses, and his refractive status was zero (considered perfect -- in  refractive sense.

I truly can not read a person's mind, nor can I ask him to do this work that is never medical at all.  It is just the wisdom to learn from the mistakes of others, and to learn from the recommendations of medical doctors like Chalmer Prentice.  So many people TALK about taking action --but so few actually do it -- in my opinion.

Otis




Hello, Welcome to the forum! I myself am on the journey of improving my own eyesight using the plus lenses. Even though I don't wear contacts, I think I can still help you. Having a +3 pair of plus lens over a -4 pair of contacts is the equivalent of having a -1 prescription contacts, which may be too powerful when reading. I think it is good to start off with +2 or +1.5 glasses over your current contact prescription.

Offline jansen

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2011, 05:28:24 PM »
Hello Mr. Brown,

Indeed, I was disappointed at my plateau. I greatly apologize for my absence these past several months. Around the time when I stopped posting here, I continued to work with +1.75, unfortunately to no avail. However, one day, around 4 months ago, I accidentally broke my lenses, and +1.75 was not available at the store. As a result, I bought +1.50 lenses and realized the big mistake I had been making during my experimentation with plus lenses. I never realized how close I was to the text in reality when using +1.75, and as a result my eyes never seemed to improve as the accommodation was high at that distance. Ever since I switched to +1.50, I could comfortably read a book at a comfortable length, and as a result my vision started to sharpen up dramatically. I now report a clear 20/50, and a slightly blurry 20/40 when using the 20 feet snellen eyechart at my local grocery store. Of course, I would like to thank you, Mr. Becker, and everyone else in this forum for helping me with my vision rehab!

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2011, 06:35:04 PM »
Hi Jansen,
Subject:  I am pleased to see you are still wearing the plus!!
I know how truly difficult it is to wear the plus.  That is why I profoundly admire my nephew, who is somewhat like Todd -- and is also in "sports training".  You can estimate your refractive status, by seeing how far you and "push print" to the point of "comfortable blur".  I sounds like that point is about 20 inches for you.  The eye seems to "recover" in steps or, as you have discovered, "plateaus".  All that I say can not "ease" the frustration of hitting that plateau.  In fact Severson hit the same problem, when going from 20/70 to 20/20.  He just dug in, and kept pushing himself to wear the plus -- because he judged he was right.  I don't know if you are in school, but I know that each year in school, the normal eye goes down by -1/2 diopter -- documented in many scientific publications.  Thus to see improvement, and indeed to "keep" 20/40 to 20/50 vision, while in school, must be judged against that known fact.  The reason I emphasize getting to 20/40, is that it is a degree of success, in that you can avoid almost all use of a minus lens -- which is a major success in itself.  I don't know if you followed Shadow's experience -- who was a little different that you.  He was about 20/25, I think, but a minus would clear to 20/15 for him.  After some argument, he choose to see if he could get his naked eye vision as good as his retina said it could be.  He was successful.  His naked eye vision is now 20/15 to 20/13 by his report.  I know how powerful and "convincing" the minus lens is -- so it is hard to avoid it.  In fact, I would use a minus to see what your retina can do -- by just checking on your Snellen.  Obviously I think you will find your retina is good for 20/20.  I also expect that the "minimum" minus for you would be about -3/4 diopters (to get you from 20/50 to 20/25 and 20/20).  But I beleve in "control" -- not my control, but your control.  That is why I get my own minus lenses from Zennioptical -- just to be in control.  Also, as an engineer, I always believe that if I want a job done "right" -- I must do it myself.  Keep on posting, because we all can learn from you as I learned some things from Shadow.  Otis

Offline Todd Becker

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2011, 07:57:47 PM »
Hello Mr. Brown,

Indeed, I was disappointed at my plateau. I greatly apologize for my absence these past several months. Around the time when I stopped posting here, I continued to work with +1.75, unfortunately to no avail. However, one day, around 4 months ago, I accidentally broke my lenses, and +1.75 was not available at the store. As a result, I bought +1.50 lenses and realized the big mistake I had been making during my experimentation with plus lenses. I never realized how close I was to the text in reality when using +1.75, and as a result my eyes never seemed to improve as the accommodation was high at that distance. Ever since I switched to +1.50, I could comfortably read a book at a comfortable length, and as a result my vision started to sharpen up dramatically. I now report a clear 20/50, and a slightly blurry 20/40 when using the 20 feet snellen eyechart at my local grocery store. Of course, I would like to thank you, Mr. Becker, and everyone else in this forum for helping me with my vision rehab!


Hi Jansen,

It's so good to hear of your recent progress in continuing to reduce your myopia.  But what is even better is to hear how you were able to uncover a problem with your previous training and adjust it in a way that helped your break your plateau.

The analogy with proper weight training bears comparison.  Some people train with weights that are too heavy for them to lift with proper form. So they gasp and strain, heaving the heavy objects with momentum. They fail to get stronger because their form prevents proper stimulus of the muscle fibers and nerves.  Perhaps somewhat ironically, they find that training with lighter weights, but lifting more slowly and with proper form, suddenly allows for significant progress in getting stronger.

The same seems to have been the case with you.  By switching to slightly weaker plus lenses, you were able to read at a more comfortable distance for longer periods of time, rather than straining to see clearly close up.  As you say, you may have been reading with too strong a blur, or outside your range of accommodation.  But with the weaker lenses, the defocus stimulus could finally work, and your eyesight improved.

This really shows the principle of Hormetism, or applied hormesis, quite nicely.  It's not about merely subjecting yourself to "stress", but rather about dialing in the stress so that it is just strong enough, but not too strong, to effect lasting change.  Whether it concerns muscular strength, eyesight, diet, or emotional resilience, the "Goldilocks principle" or golden mean applies.

Good luck with your continued success, Jansen. And thanks for the update.

Todd

Offline johnlink

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2013, 12:24:45 PM »
Here is what I recommend:

1. For distance vision, consider switching to slightly undercorrected contact lenses.  So if you are using -4 lenses, get a new set that is -3.75 or -3.5.  That will get your eyes doing some work when you are driving, walking around or viewing presentations at work.  Be sure that this does not generate a "blur" -- just a slightly less sharp image.

2. For reading or close up work, choose some cheap plus lenses that -- when worn OVER your contacts -- produce a transition from "sharp" to "blurry" just beyond your comfortable reading distance (typically about 12-16 inches from your eyes).

I've been considering starting the plan described above which would seem to turn all use of my eyes into a practice that would lead to improvement. However, I'm wondering how to reconcile that plan with the following passage I read at http://gettingstronger.org/about-this-blog/:

Quote
It is important to make a clear distinction between training periods when we are building stress resistance, and the rest of life, when we are dealing with life’s stresses. Training sessions will typically weaken a person during the application of the stress exercises, and likely also for some period of recovery thereafter.

John Link

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2013, 05:32:53 PM »
Hi John,

Subject: The problem of wearing a strong minus - all the time - either contacts or a minus lens.

The minus "blocks" any recovery. The does create a problem - for those who are tying to "improve" their Snellen readings.  For that reason, I would start reading your own Snellen to find out EXACTLY what line you can read.  Once you have that information, say you read 20/60 to 20/70 (passes some DMV tests!) you can avoid wearing ANY MINUS.  If that is what you confirm, then you can do all close work WITH NO MINUS ON  YOUR EYES. You could NOT do this with a minus-lens contact on your eyes.

This would be the equivalent of reading with a plus - and at a much lower cost.  If you need a minus for driving, you can judge that by using some low-cost "test" minus lenses, and obtaining your "driving" glasses from Zennioptical.com for about $10.  Since you will see changes, you will need "newer" minus lenses, and $150 glasses from an OD just don't "work".  No one will "see" your results - but yourself. This is what Seven is now "working on" and he exceeds the required 20/40 line. That is why you must check your Snellen yourself.  Very wise!

Here is what I recommend:

1. For distance vision, consider switching to slightly undercorrected contact lenses.  So if you are using -4 lenses, get a new set that is -3.75 or -3.5.  That will get your eyes doing some work when you are driving, walking around or viewing presentations at work.  Be sure that this does not generate a "blur" -- just a slightly less sharp image.

2. For reading or close up work, choose some cheap plus lenses that -- when worn OVER your contacts -- produce a transition from "sharp" to "blurry" just beyond your comfortable reading distance (typically about 12-16 inches from your eyes).

I've been considering starting the plan described above which would seem to turn all use of my eyes into a practice that would lead to improvement. However, I'm wondering how to reconcile that plan with the following passage I read at http://gettingstronger.org/about-this-blog/:

Quote
It is important to make a clear distinction between training periods when we are building stress resistance, and the rest of life, when we are dealing with life’s stresses. Training sessions will typically weaken a person during the application of the stress exercises, and likely also for some period of recovery thereafter.

John Link

Offline johnlink

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2013, 07:26:50 AM »

The minus "blocks" any recovery.


In that case it appears that you disagree with the recommendation of Todd Becker:

Here is what I recommend:

1. For distance vision, consider switching to slightly undercorrected contact lenses.  So if you are using -4 lenses, get a new set that is -3.75 or -3.5.  That will get your eyes doing some work when you are driving, walking around or viewing presentations at work.  Be sure that this does not generate a "blur" -- just a slightly less sharp image.

2. For reading or close up work, choose some cheap plus lenses that -- when worn OVER your contacts -- produce a transition from "sharp" to "blurry" just beyond your comfortable reading distance (typically about 12-16 inches from your eyes).


John Link

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 08:03:34 AM »



JOHN
In that case it appears that you disagree with the recommendation of Todd Becker:

Otis>
I find that GOOD FRIENDS will in fact diagree on small details - that is totally normal.  You will simply have to sort out what YOU intend to do about your own visual future.

Good luck!





The minus "blocks" any recovery.


In that case it appears that you disagree with the recommendation of Todd Becker:

Here is what I recommend:

1. For distance vision, consider switching to slightly undercorrected contact lenses.  So if you are using -4 lenses, get a new set that is -3.75 or -3.5.  That will get your eyes doing some work when you are driving, walking around or viewing presentations at work.  Be sure that this does not generate a "blur" -- just a slightly less sharp image.

2. For reading or close up work, choose some cheap plus lenses that -- when worn OVER your contacts -- produce a transition from "sharp" to "blurry" just beyond your comfortable reading distance (typically about 12-16 inches from your eyes).


John Link

Offline johnlink

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Re: Plus Lenses While Wearing Contacts
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2013, 08:16:16 AM »

JOHN
In that case it appears that you disagree with the recommendation of Todd Becker:

Otis>
I find that GOOD FRIENDS will in fact diagree on small details - that is totally normal.  You will simply have to sort out what YOU intend to do about your own visual future.

Good luck!


I agree that good friends will disagree about small details and even LARGE details! I think that a recommendation of using no correction or using a correction that gives a little blur is a LARGE detail.

As you have probably guessed, I am currently sorting out what I intend to do to improve my vision. I'm glad to have found this forum, and expect that I will learn much here, especially from what you have written and what you will write.

John Link
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 09:14:41 AM by johnlink »