Author Topic: The PVS System.  (Read 3757 times)

Offline OtisBrown

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The PVS System.
« on: December 11, 2013, 08:38:35 PM »
Subject: Has anyone used the PVS system?

http://www.powervisionsystem.com/

What do you think of it?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 10:32:24 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2013, 11:23:14 AM »
It helped to break a plateau of 20/40 and achieve 20/32 in a month after no further results with the Bates method. It also cleared more to me how to use plus lenses and use them even seeing around at home.
The designer of this method knows a lot about studying researches, he has gone through it himself and emphases a lot at exterior eye muscles training. Made my eyes very flexible and strong but for the problem of myopia I still have a plateau for months at 20/32 in spite of the time I consume doing the heavy schedule. If it doesn't give any more results in 6 or 12 months then I'll reconsider it.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 12:43:45 PM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2013, 05:47:50 AM »
Hi Alex and successful group,

Subject: Remarks on seeing "double vision" or "Ghosting" as you clear your Snellen Visual Acuity chart.

The truth is that almost NO ONE looks at a Snellen - who does "Bates" or the "Plus".  It is just "human nature" to never look, or to "believe and OD".  I learned that is always a mistake.  I also learned that 20/40 is the REQUIRED line, not 20/20.  I say that so a person does not "panic" when he passes the 20/30 line. 

There is ONE issue that does concern me, and that is slight "double vision".  If I can read the 20/20 line, at home, and have some "ghosting", then I ACCEPT that ghosting.  I think about 30 percent of the population has that ghosting, but never notices it. 20/20 is VERY sharp vision.

There are many people who FEAR any "plus wearing".  So it is good to be intellectually prepared for that issue - if you see it.

I know that the un-protected eye goes down at -1/2 diopter per year -- if a plus is not worn, or the person REFUSES to wear the plus.  My nephew wore the plus at school and at home, and never saw ghosting.  I had him check his vision - and it is 20/20. But he defeated the -1/2 diopter per year.

Here is some commentary for your interest about ghosting as you go from 20/60 to 20/30 to 20/20.

++++++

Andreas wrote


“Did your eyes have a hard time overcoming the first case of double vision? I believe I experience what you describe as the two images are about the same strength. There is a clear image and a blurry image. Sometimes it looks like the blurry image creates a slightly transparent aura around an object, but for objects at a distance I have counted up to four different images. I haven’t seen PVS address this issue, so how did you deal with it? and did it only take a few days for you? I have spent more than a week with this”

——

by  Arachne.

That is a difficult question for me to answer, as my first experience of double vision was many years ago, before I even began to try to cure my myopia. Also, eyes vary so much from day to day and throughout the day that the quality of vision can be affected by other things like dry eyes. I can only describe what I have experienced over the past two years.

When I began my program two years ago, I had fuzzy/foggy vision alternating with periods of double vision. After a few months of exercises etc, the fuzziness/fog completely disappeared, but I was still left with double vision that was always present, to varying degrees. At this moment in time, I have a certain amount of slight double vision, but I also have periods of clear vision.

Most of the time, my brain ignores the double vision because it has learned to live with it, and it is not noticeable enough to cause much interference. But as I continue to work on my vision to extend my focussing ability, and as my distance vision continues to improve, every so often (maybe once every few weeks), the double-vision effect becomes temporarily much worse: the secondary image becomes stronger and competes with the primary image.

For a day or two I become very aware of this double-vision effect, to the point where it causes real interference. Then one of the two images fades away and — here is the important bit! — I find that I am left with better overall vision than before and an increase in distance measurement. This is not just wishful thinking or a product of my imagination, because it translates into an improved Snellen reading (i.e. quicker focussing time on the 20/20 line, and maybe an additional letter on the 20/15 line). As it happens, I have just gone through one of these “walls” of double vision.

This time, it lasted for two days, and afterwards I enjoyed really good vision and noticed how much better my night vision had become (only three or four moons in the sky instead of about sixteen!). These are my experiences, and they may be different from other people’s due to the fact that I do not wear any minus lenses (other than driving at night or when conditions demand it). As for how to “deal with it”, I really don’t know. Patience is what does it for me! Perhaps Dr Alex will one day do a detailed blog article on double vision, as it is such a curious and fascinating phenomenon.



Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2013, 05:53:27 AM »
In order for me not to seem unfair with PVS, it uses a lot plus lenses, subcorrection and CBR which target not at the exterior eye muscles but in the ciliary muscle.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 09:58:54 AM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline Arachne

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 12:10:41 PM »
Just to clarify things a little here. Otis has quoted me in his recent post from a conversation I had on another site (the Frauenfeld Clinic site). And the "Dr Alex" I refer to is Alex Frauenfeld and not the "Alex_Myopic" who has posted in this thread.

And yes, I used the PVS system and I found it very good in conjunction with exercises for convergence and divergence. Whenever I reach a plateau I do some more convergence and divergence exercises and that seems to trigger new progress.

I'm almost there, having had a recent surge forward of improvement. I reckon in a year's time I'll be emmetropic. I check my Snellen a couple of times a week, and I wear plus lenses for all computer work and most book work.

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 12:40:05 PM »
Hi Arachne,

Subject: Prevention is always "pure personal".  I consider major success to be when you exceed the 20/40 line - and have the persistence to continue.

There are THREE people named Alex, one is my friend Alex Eulenberg - whose site I recommend.  Dr. Alex is a major leader in prevention and his work is greatly appreciated by me.

http://www.i-see.org/

This is recommended reading by me - but the data is truly massive, and you have to refine your belief into a manageable method that suits your requirements.

Thanks!



Just to clarify things a little here. Otis has quoted me in his recent post from a conversation I had on another site (the Frauenfeld Clinic site). And the "Dr Alex" I refer to is Alex Frauenfeld and not the "Alex_Myopic" who has posted in this thread.

And yes, I used the PVS system and I found it very good in conjunction with exercises for convergence and divergence. Whenever I reach a plateau I do some more convergence and divergence exercises and that seems to trigger new progress.

I'm almost there, having had a recent surge forward of improvement. I reckon in a year's time I'll be emmetropic. I check my Snellen a couple of times a week, and I wear plus lenses for all computer work and most book work.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 01:04:38 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline Arachne

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 02:18:59 AM »
Thanks, Otis.

There is certainly a lot of information in that site! Is Alex Eulenberg still active in the field? He should definitely add Alex Frauenfeld's site to the page of web-based resources.

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2013, 12:01:36 PM »

Subject:  "Polish Notation" - prevention is difficult, maybe impossible to understand.

++++++

By Nolan,

Thanks for sharing some your infos about this site. Sad that site is so unknown.

Sadly, many things on Frauenfeld Clinic are hard to understand to me, because I’m Polish and my English is not good.

I don’t understand many things because these articles are too long, which is certainly good for those who speak English very well, but not for those who speak not well.

I want to know in short about The Frauenfeld Method, in simple way, which would easy to understand & keep it in memory.

For example my case: 21 year old, -2 glasses, and how to heal in simple.
 Yes, spend less time with close-up work, and keep your eyesight in the edge of focus I think. But the rest of Your method is too hard to understand for me, I don’t know how many hours I can spend at close-up work, how many hours I can watch ‘far away’ views and other things.

I think that one simple article with Your method is missing. I know about Vision Improvement Courses and The Four Pillar articles, but they are too long and hard to understand for me.

+++++

I do not think it is that hard to "understand".  I do think it is hard to look at your own Snellen, wear a plus on a continuous basis, until you read and pass the 20/40 line.

For some reason, most people do not understand that this is necessary.






Thanks, Otis.

There is certainly a lot of information in that site! Is Alex Eulenberg still active in the field? He should definitely add Alex Frauenfeld's site to the page of web-based resources.

Offline chris1213

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2013, 01:13:27 PM »
Otis,

Regarding Nolan's post,

I think he's saying it's hard to "understand" not only because he has poor English but because, just like many of us, Nolan wants to find a structured 'perfect' method but actually, there isn't a perfect method. One of the problems with conventional medicine is that we find one-way of "rehabilitating" someone or something and then apply it to everybody. But each body is different, and even though many of us share similar traits we don't have an exact lifestyle which ultimately affects our bodies. If we were robots then it would be easy to fix something in everybody but since we're not, each one of us has to apply whatever one finds useful and disregard that which doesn't help us (individually). For example, Shadowfoot (a user in this forum) noticed his eyes would get really red when he was practicing excessive print pushing so he stopped doing it as much (summarizing some of his posts).

What I like about the Frauenfeld method is how Dr Alex focuses on habits and not only on 'exercises.' Instead of telling you to do something a hundred times a day, he says that if strain (caused by too much time focused close-up) led you to myopia then reducing strain will get you out of it. He implies habits that help us reduce strain and then teaches to apply positive strain to "reshape" the eye or retina.

Nolan said, "But the rest of Your method is too hard to understand for me, I don’t know how many hours I can spend at close-up work, how many hours I can watch ‘far away’ views and other things." Truth is, there are no exact hours. It's like exercising at the gym, some people go for hours and some for less than one but each on of us begins to understand how much our body can handle and how much exercise we need to see results. Each one of us must also listen to our bodies which is crucial in any rehab or any physical goal we set.

Just my opinion right here,

Chris

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2013, 01:56:56 PM »
A possible solution to Nolan is to put the link of the English site there:
http://translate.google.gr/

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 05:27:33 AM »
Sorry if I overpost but in order to be more fair with PVS and maybe others get helped I'll refer my last post in this topic too:

http://forum.gettingstronger.org/index.php/topic,8.msg5907.html#msg5907

Offline Blue Eyes

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 11:58:51 AM »
Hi Otis

I started my NVI journey with PVS and saw quite dramatic things happening to my eyes especially after doing the rotations.  I never quite got the hang of CRB and ended up developing my own version of CRB which differs quite drastically from the book which I am currently doing -  and seems to work well for me.

There was a guy on the PVS forum who had his eyes measured start and after some initial success his vision regressed close to where he started so gave up on PVS.   I can see why he gave up and that is because PVS focuses mainly on the extra-ocular muscles  when in fact for high myopias like me you also need to address connected muscles  such as in the neck, shoulder, back  etc as this also contains tension that must be released so some type of technique.

-Mike

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 01:09:14 PM »
Hi Mike,

Thanks for your evaluation of PVS.  I know that each success is indeed personal - by that I mean that what one person does (that gets him to 20/40, and passing the DMV) the next person will do - exactly the same way - and see no results at all!

This is what makes any "advocacy" extremely difficult.  This is why no OD or MD, can ever, "prescribe" blanket prevention.  It does not work - because each person does it all his own way.  I long respected medical people who say that.

For that reason, I measure both my refractive state (with low-cost test lenses) and my visual acuity.  That way I do not have to "intrude" my concept of prevention into the office of an OD - who is just going to tell me that, "prevention never works".

For those, starting at -1.0 diopters (about 20/50 to 20/60), clearly some people posting here - have been successful - in that they personally verified they pass the REQUIRED DMV TEST.  Some of these people, who get enthusiastic about continued wearing of the plus "for near", gradually get to and exceed the 20/20 line by their own objective measurements.   That means they are no longer dependent on an OD or MD.

So I encourage you to continue - to learn, to discuss and to accept the reasonable challenge to read your Snellen and (I hope) get close to 20/40.  I personally do not "focus" on either "muscle system", but rather respect the entire eye as being "responsive" to long-term near - that IS CONFIMRED IN OBJECTIVE SCIENCE.  I know many people want to "think up" a "mechanism", but that, to me, ignores the proven behavior of all natural eyes.

I truly believe and support a "Bates-type" of study, where each person would still be passing the 20/50, and would take prevention very seriously.  I think Bates "failed", because he failed to get each person enthusiastic to work on prevention in a more disciplined manner.  But I can do nothing to institute that type of scientific effort.


Hi Otis

I started my NVI journey with PVS and saw quite dramatic things happening to my eyes especially after doing the rotations.  I never quite got the hang of CRB and ended up developing my own version of CRB which differs quite drastically from the book which I am currently doing -  and seems to work well for me.

There was a guy on the PVS forum who had his eyes measured start and after some initial success his vision regressed close to where he started so gave up on PVS.   I can see why he gave up and that is because PVS focuses mainly on the extra-ocular muscles  when in fact for high myopias like me you also need to address connected muscles  such as in the neck, shoulder, back  etc as this also contains tension that must be released so some type of technique.

-Mike
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 01:12:55 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: The PVS System.
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 10:59:35 AM »
Hi Otis

 I can see why he gave up and that is because PVS focuses mainly on the extra-ocular muscles  when in fact for high myopias like me you also need to address connected muscles  such as in the neck, shoulder, back  etc as this also contains tension that must be released so some type of technique.

-Mike

Hi Mike,
in PVS by doing rotations with open eyes, fixing at a point that is at the highest level of stretching, trying to maintain ocular fusion. you also stretch your neck muscles quite well.