Author Topic: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?  (Read 3846 times)

Offline OtisBrown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« on: March 23, 2014, 06:49:45 AM »
Subject: The minus lens works instantly - very few people request prevention.

Item:  Since most ODs and MDs have a "distaste" for pure-prevention, are those ophthalmologists who advocate for (plus and/or exercise) charlatans?

Item:  This issue become one of charging you money - for physical work on "recovery".

Item: If I charge you money, and you are successful (getting back to 20/40 or better) have I "cheated you"?

Item: Is telling you scientific truth - the act of a charlatan?  Who judges that issue?  Other optometrists?

These are all the issues raised by Tom's discussion with Optometrist Richard Anderson.  Richard is selling prevention - and that is the goal of all of us.  I post this for your thoughtful review and commentary.  I would also include Dr. Bates, and his preventive program, and his results.  Was he also a charlatan - of a sincere person with "wrong ideas" that do not work?

In all fairness - here is Richard's statement for your review:

http://myopiaprevention.org/

++++++

Tom>  You must have been aware that the same thing applies to the industry of ophthalmic lenses, and the influence they exert on our research studies. It also seems to me that this website is set up to promote orthokeratology and the website orthokdoctors.com. I think myopia is best tackled through myopia rehabilitation (see www.frauenfeldclinic.com).

Richard> “there has been no study to show that pseudo-myopia, if not treated, leads to more myopia.“

Tom> What if there is no interest in conducting such studies? In fact, we do have countless indirect evidence suggesting that it is the case (e.g., the atropine studies, the studies showing how NITM can increase vitreous chamber depth in susceptible individuals). One just have to seep through the papers.

Tom> The idea that pseudomyopia leads to myopia is something that I can witness everyday. After all, research are conducted by humans, who might have all kinds of bias and intentions.

Richard> “Scientific thought has a history of both charlatans and subpresssion of alternative viewpoints “

Tom>  This is why I'm writing to you. Maybe some of the research studies will be regarded as bogus as we look back hundreds of years later. The charlatans are not necessarily the laymen.

Richard>  “Most do so because they haven't seen the studies, but others will elect to ignore them.”

Tom>  I think there is a possibility that some researches are only conducted to prove their point, some might not be even well controlled, yet some others might have a hidden agenda, but I agree that in general, we shouldn’t deny a study unless we have compelling reason to do so.

+++++

In fact this is this issue that compelled me to examine Dr. Bates, and Dr. Raphaelson.  There is also reason to doubt studies that have a clear "hidden agenda", that Tom talks about.

The first question:  Was Bates a charlatan? 

« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 09:42:47 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline CapitalPrince

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2014, 07:00:23 AM »
there's no need to post the same thing over and over again. We know you hate eye doctors.
what is past is past. I'm moving on with my life, and you should probably find something else to do.

Offline OtisBrown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2014, 07:26:46 AM »
Hi Sam,

You JUMP to a conclusion. You say, "we know" you hate doctors.  When you state a private opinion, you say, "Sam knows you hate doctors.

Please do not presume to speak for others reading here, or posting here.  Todd knows me quite well.  He knows my interests are subtle.

There is no point where I have EVER said, "I hate doctors".  In many ways, I feel they have no choice when dealing with the gross ignorance of a large number of people.

I disagree with some doctors, and agree with others.  That is not "hate", but rather a search for a better solution.  I am sorry you feel the way you do.

In fact, I will post a statement by a doctor that I deeply respect.

This issue is "disagreement about concept" -- is never "hate".


there's no need to post the same thing over and over again. We know you hate eye doctors.
what is past is past. I'm moving on with my life, and you should probably find something else to do.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 10:51:22 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline OtisBrown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2014, 07:35:02 AM »
Statement by Ophthalmologist on prevention.

Dr. Viikari is Finnish - so it is hard to read her statements. But this Doctor's message is clear.

For those who say I "hate doctors" - that is a profound lie.  I recognize an HONEST disagreement
about prevention.

http://kaisuviikari.com/wordpress/

Dr. Kaisu is 92 years old, and an excellent ophthalmologist!  She has given
most of her life to "plus prevention", as she spells it out below.

But the real issue is for you to understand why you look at a Snellen, and
why you wear a plus for all close work.

That is the real "sticking point" for 99.99 percent of the public.

They just do not understand WHY it is necessary.

I certainly NOW understand WHY it is necessary.  In fact - there is not much
choice but that you are wise enough, and educated enough to do it yourself.

Or don't do it.  It is no "skin off my teeth", about what you do.

You are the one who will lose.

Raphaelson said much the same thing.

You attempt to give full authority to the person - and just tell him SCIENTIFIC TRUTH.

If he is very smart - and self-motivated - he will do what is necessary.

Tragically, very few people are "all that smart".

My many thanks to Dr. Viikari.  The "world" needs more people like her!  A
person who tells the truth - and WILL NOT QUIT.

But the ONLY person who is successful - is yourself - and finally based on
objective science.

Best,

Otis


-----Original Message-----

From: Kaisu Viikari

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 11:49 AM

Subject: a lesson!

Freely to delever!

Dear Luljeta,

... a slept nighth and a new day, I hope being able to advice
more because it it sooooooooo much to say - and I'm 92 year-old!!!!

1) The whole salvation depends on the parents and you , and your
intelligence to go into this demanding process.  In vain I have not
offered my life to that project - but it is extremly rewarding, and in
the  continuation, quite easy!

2) Stop immediately all your investígations:

They are totally unnecesary, only on the contrary because they do stress
the child and make  she trying her best by focussing and only thus makes
her   m o r e   tense!!!

3) to treat this thing means,  moderate monetary sacrifies, because,
in the drugstoeres there are not spectacles for the children!

Also there are not s.c. halfglasses (empty up or empty down, because the
opticians do earn nothing with them.

In my time they were stll to get - but - when I after the lessons let
them circulate, they became stole!!!

4) First glasses +3.0 D  guarantie acheving the s.c. emmetropy =
refraction +/- 0  and inhibit the gliding to the minus side.

    Now, already in this stage I give you the email of a dentist, in
Tampere, heself contacted me 2005, and on behaf his education, ( the
absolut need - and of cours his intelligence), so I do suppose, has been
able to understand this idea,   impossible for billions on the globe, the
professionals the worst of all, though accommodation is the first to be
taught to us in the education!!! - of cause not those consequences which
   only   I have grasped !

       So, he is  Vesa Salonen,  vesa.salonen@gmail.com

I try also, immediately, to forward your story , ready, to him.

Further, already in this stage, I say to you, that these advices concern
  a l l   and it is your duty to spread this thing and these rules, they
are nowhere else to find.

Do take many, many, many copies of these mails!!!!

--------

5) Now, you can straight out, purchae for her (her mame?) +3.0
spectacle, only cheap frames!
She shall read with them, so near it demands,so far it goes.

If the optician will not make them to half glasses,  visite  a l l
possibles, it is now you, who are the order!!! The line, in the middle
of the pupil, so the bnefit is the most total: she is able to have them
continiuosly on!!

If that seems impossible (what it  n o t   is, then purcase an other pair
+2.0 which are a  m u s t  !

6) never a minus!!

7) The gist behind this all is the dominant  i n b o r n   hyperopia like
which the children are born and the evil, the un-natural amount of
nowadays close work!

8 ) But this is not yet the thing. There behind is still  l a t e n t
hypereopia of different amounts - a big, though not so difficult, work
object!

9) in order to save our vision for whole of the life, means continous
bearing of eye glasses, otherwise we do not get off this demanding life.

10) And - as the last advice: if you do not follow these instructions, it
is then in vain to contact me again!!!

I hope you - and all your loved - all the best and hope be able, still,
to answer, if you have something important to ask - and I do now the
thousands natural questions;

But do read my sites and my books - in  o w n  hands!!!

Kaisu

« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 08:52:10 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline OtisBrown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2014, 07:45:06 AM »

Improvement from -4 diopters to -1.5 diopters.

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/bradley-4-00-1-5/

Do you believe it?

Offline CapitalPrince

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2014, 08:03:23 AM »
no i do not believe that story from the frauenfeld clinic.
This is a VERY POOR "success" story that gives people false hope.
you can figure out why by using some common sense.

you have a false idea that the eye will simply "move" positive if placed in an open environment. that is completely wrong.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 08:06:47 AM by CapitalPrince »

Offline OtisBrown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2014, 08:45:14 AM »
Hi Sam,

Then what is your idea?

How are you going to protect your distant vision - over the next five years?


no i do not believe that story from the frauenfeld clinic.
This is a VERY POOR "success" story that gives people false hope.
you can figure out why by using some common sense.

you have a false idea that the eye will simply "move" positive if placed in an open environment. that is completely wrong.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 08:52:52 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline CapitalPrince

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2014, 09:03:10 AM »
i stated my views many times...

to prevent myopia, wear a plus or undercorrection and work beyond the far point. the eye will stay the same. it will not to up or go down.

to reverse myopia, it takes focus pulling till you feel stress on the eyes for long periods of time.

Obviously i will wear a plus for all close work BUT i know that my vision will stay the same. If i want to improve my vision, i need to do active focus/focus pulling on distance objects.



                                                                     

Offline OtisBrown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2014, 09:40:36 AM »
Hi Sam,

That indeed my point-of-view, also.

But for you (and anyone) it is difficult to sustain the wearing of the plus, as you are doing it. 

It was my goal to "enable" the person to actually measure both his visual acuity, and his refractive STATE.  These are totally personal measurements.  When I say objective - I always mean you make them.  This does make you independent - which is my only goal.

i stated my views many times...

to prevent myopia, wear a plus or undercorrection and work beyond the far point. the eye will stay the same. it will not to up or go down.

to reverse myopia, it takes focus pulling till you feel stress on the eyes for long periods of time.

Obviously i will wear a plus for all close work BUT i know that my vision will stay the same. If i want to improve my vision, i need to do active focus/focus pulling on distance objects.



                                                                     

Offline CapitalPrince

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2014, 12:01:52 PM »
otis you like to believe in "success stories" however the "success stories" are HIGHLY exaggerated. like liam's -5.25 to "20/20" or the -4D to -1.5D in several monrths.
It gives people a FALSE sense of hope and progress.

if it is really possible to go from -5.25D to 20/20 in a reasonable amount of time like 2-3 years (like liam's cause), why did you not try to reverse your myopia from -7D to 20/20 with these method??

Offline Alex_Myopic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 01:38:15 AM »
i stated my views many times...

to prevent myopia, wear a plus or undercorrection and work beyond the far point. the eye will stay the same. it will not to up or go down.

to reverse myopia, it takes focus pulling till you feel stress on the eyes for long periods of time.

Obviously i will wear a plus for all close work BUT i know that my vision will stay the same. If i want to improve my vision, i need to do active focus/focus pulling on distance objects.                                                                   

What is the difference of print pushing with plus and focus pulling on distance objects, except from the degree of convergence? With print pushing you can also find the blur zone with little movements and not with steps. I believe somebody can slowly reverse myopia (after the first fast results) with both and as a technique and time saving (for example while reading the monitor or a book) print pushing with plus is more easy.

Offline CapitalPrince

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 04:45:58 AM »
have you been able to get your 20/25 vision to 20/20 or better by using the plus? if your vision really hasn't improved bryonf you can surmise that merely wearing the plus does not benefit that much.

but the bottom line is results so whatever methods work.

but the belief that the eye will "move positive" when the "near environment" is removed is wrong.

Offline Alex_Myopic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 10:26:15 AM »
No, I'm at a not easy 20/25 for months now on a bright day but I see some slight improvements per month. Before I had seen Mr Brown's tutorial videos about the blur zone and correctly using plus I used plus only by having read the maths and so I used small degree of diopters (+1). But when at a blur zone I had greater results. There are some studies in "the myopia manual" that show small decrease in the vitreous body after use of plus lenses that I had post them before. Anyway, I wish you good success.

Two months ago I wasn't able to read 20/20 with -0,5D on, glasses only made 20/25 line easier to read. One month ago I read 20/20 line with difficulty (-0,5D on).
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 12:44:37 PM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline FonkStreet

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2014, 03:44:35 PM »
CapitalPrince, I'm not agree with you: Otis writes sometimes the same thing in his messages but they are interesting. Otis is a pioneer, I think you should respect him more than that.

Otis, are you really -7D myopic?

Offline CapitalPrince

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: Are ODs who suppport true prevention - charlatans?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2014, 05:32:31 PM »
what do you not agree with?