Author Topic: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey  (Read 25717 times)

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2014, 03:34:27 PM »
Hi Warnbd,

First, I would read what an ophthalmologist says about reducing astigmatism:

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/reduce-astigmatism-90-9-months/


Then, I always like to see self-confirmed success like you report.  With -3.5 D, and +2 cyl, you have -2.5 Spherical Equivalent.

What I would "look for" would be the ability to read in excellent light at 20 inches with no lens on my face.

I am a man that accepts compromise - on a temporary basis.  Getting glasses off my face (for near) is critical.  With a Sph. Equ. of -2.5, you should know, or check your naked-eye visual acuity.  It is probably about 20/60 at this time.

The measure of success, would be to reduce your "distant" minus lens to -1 diopter (for 20/20) and perhaps 20/40, with no lens at all.

I know you will have your own "standard" to just these issues - but that is my standard.  I truly hate over-prescription, but I do accept the need for a minus (self-checked) if I need it to drive a car.  This is why I have my $25 "test lens" kit.  Saves $400 for each OD visit.  (But I know what I am doing, and I am very careful.)

Good work on your progress.


I thought it was time to update my progress since it has been about 6 weeks since last update.  I received my second set of Zennioptical glasses (distance & reading) approx. mid April, and I am now seeing 20/20 with them as of mid May.

Thus current prescription is for 20/20,   Left:  -3.50 sph, +2.00 cyl  and Right: -2.25 sph, +1.00 cyl. (May 18)

Compared to starting point as of early Jan.:   Left:  -4.75 sph, +2.75 cyl  and Right: -3.50 sph, +1.75 cyl. (starting point)

This is 1.25 diopter spherical improvement and .75 cylinder improvement. I think I need to order 3rd set of glasses in a week or two( .50 sph. distance under-correction, 1.75 sph. reading under-correction).  Folks, this technique works, but it does take persistence and perseverance.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 06:48:56 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline chris1213

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2014, 07:33:21 PM »
Good job on the results, and quite frankly, that improvement for only a month is very impressive, keep doing whatever you're doing.

Offline Myoctim

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2014, 03:34:56 AM »
I thought it was time to update my progress since it has been about 6 weeks since last update.  I received my second set of Zennioptical glasses (distance & reading) approx. mid April, and I am now seeing 20/20 with them as of mid May.

Thus current prescription is for 20/20,   Left:  -3.50 sph, +2.00 cyl  and Right: -2.25 sph, +1.00 cyl. (May 18)

Compared to starting point as of early Jan.:   Left:  -4.75 sph, +2.75 cyl  and Right: -3.50 sph, +1.75 cyl. (starting point)

This is 1.25 diopter spherical improvement and .75 cylinder improvement. I think I need to order 3rd set of glasses in a week or two( .50 sph. distance under-correction, 1.75 sph. reading under-correction).  Folks, this technique works, but it does take persistence and perseverance.

Congrats!

For comparison that would translate to

-1.25D sph -1.0D cyl  for your better eye.

Is there any special exercise you can recommend?




Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2014, 07:54:26 AM »
Myoctim,

I am still new at this process.  I have sporadically done the PVS type eye stretching and I think it is helpful for the eyes to have full motion range without tightness.  This flexibility I think does help the eyes to coordinate their directionality when focusing.  Better muscle balance I think also can assist in reducing astigmatism.  However, I believe that pushing close vision work to the blur point is the primary adaptive mechanism to reduce myopia, as verified by my progress thus far. I do find it helpful to take breaks from close work, and palm/relax eyes for a few minutes.  This seems to "reset" eyes from strain as blurriness increases.

Today I ordered my 3rd set of zennioptical glasses with a more challenging prescription (-2.75 sph, +1.50 cyl Left,  -1.50 sph, +.50 cyl Right, for distance glasses).  (By the way, I am typing this entry with no glasses on)

Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2014, 01:19:01 PM »
It has been a few weeks since updating my progress.  I received my third set of Zennioptical glasses 2 more weeks ago.  I now appear to be getting 20/20 with these new glasses, whose prescription is:

Left:-2.75 sph, +1.50 cyl,   Right: -1.50 sph, +.50 cyl   (approx. 2 diopters of change, Astigmatism coming along well also)
(starting point in jan was: Left:  -4.75 sph, +2.75 cyl  and Right: -3.50 sph, +1.75 cyl.)

At first I thought this was too aggressive of a change, but after a couple days of adjustment, I am glad I did this.  I definitely could tell this was challenging my eyes due to the eye strain.  I now am at the point where I can do computer work without glasses, and this will work for reading/computer until the blur point moves out too far, and then for the first time I will be able to go into "true" plus lenses. I am targeting mid August for the next prescription change, depending on rate of progress.  So far, so good, hope to get to 20/40 by late fall. 

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2014, 05:13:11 AM »
Hi Warnbd,

I think it is excellent that you obtain your own lenses from Zennioptical.  Further, it is great that you have improved your vision to the point where you can work at a computer with no lens on your face.  That is a big step towards further improvement.  You can also select a lens that gives you 20/40 vision, for most work.

Here is a simple astigmatic check by Dr. Alex.

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/test-need-astigmatism-correction-normalized-prescriptions/

I personally, try to avoid an astigmatic value - since my goal it to keep my "distant lens" as simple as possible.

As always, I think wearing a minus lens (when you have 20/40 vision or so) truly "kills vision", and getting back to a self-confirmed value of 20/40 is a great step forward. 

I argue for personal empowerment on all these levels.



It has been a few weeks since updating my progress.  I received my third set of Zennioptical glasses 2 more weeks ago.  I now appear to be getting 20/20 with these new glasses, whose prescription is:

Left:-2.75 sph, +1.50 cyl,   Right: -1.50 sph, +.50 cyl   (approx. 2 diopters of change, Astigmatism coming along well also)
(starting point in jan was: Left:  -4.75 sph, +2.75 cyl  and Right: -3.50 sph, +1.75 cyl.)

At first I thought this was too aggressive of a change, but after a couple days of adjustment, I am glad I did this.  I definitely could tell this was challenging my eyes due to the eye strain.  I now am at the point where I can do computer work without glasses, and this will work for reading/computer until the blur point moves out too far, and then for the first time I will be able to go into "true" plus lenses. I am targeting mid August for the next prescription change, depending on rate of progress.  So far, so good, hope to get to 20/40 by late fall.

Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2014, 10:55:13 AM »
Hi All,
After receiving my 4th set of distance/reading glasses on Sept 5, I decided it was time for an update to my progress.  After adjusting to these new glasses for a couple of days, I will characterize my status as 20/25 with the distance glasses.  As usual, I have been going with .50 diopter under-correction for distance, and 1.75 diopter under for reading. 

My current status is LEFT:  -2.25 sph, +1.50 cyl;  RIGHT:  -1.25 sph, +.50 cyl  (for 20/20)
(this is approx. 2.50 spherical and 1.25 cylinder improvement in 8 months)

Therapy start was Jan 2014,   LEFT:  -4.75 sph, +2.75 cyl;  RIGHT:   -3.50 sph, +1.75 cyl.

I was not doing the print pushing as much in July, resulting in some slow down in the rate of progress.  I had been improving approx. 1/3 diopter per month.  I am confident that I will get to 20/40 in one eye at least by year end.  Again I want to say thank you to Todd for this blog and forum and to Todd and Otis for their pioneering work in helping the public to see the truth regarding Myopia. I will continue this thread so that others can see another example that treating Myopia and Astigmatism is possible if you put in the effort. 

There have been some good recent threads by jimboston (a comprehensive review) and by Nickgrouwen.  Based on my personal experience, aggressive efforts for blur clearing will pay off in improvement.  In the beginning I did do some PVS eye work, but have not been continuing, with no loss of progress. 

The issue of astigmatism is a challenge, and I think I have played this fairly well.  I have continued to reduce the cylinder component by .25 or .50 at a time.  This still allows the eyes to achieve good focus when print pushing.  I believe the eyes/brain need the reward of a mostly clear image to stimulate the auto focusing when one pushes the print into blur.  Without this, one would go from more blur to less blur.  My new glasses have no cylinder on the right, with only +1.00 cylinder on the left.

Current glasses:   Left:   -2.0 sph,+1.0 cyl,   Right:   -.75 sph, 0 cyl  (distance)
                             Left:   -0.75 sph,+1.0 cyl,   Right:   +.50 sph, 0 cyl  (reading)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 05:32:33 PM by warnbd »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2014, 04:28:40 AM »
Hi Warn,

Here is a better way to measure astigmatism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_GBZU-kmzo

I would make up my own trial-lens set to do this at home - however.

I am pleased you can work on your computer with no lens on your face - that is indeed the first step of true-prevention.




Hi All,
After receiving my 4th set of distance/reading glasses on Sept 5, I decided it was time for an update to my progress.  After adjusting to these new glasses for a couple of days, I will characterize my status as 20/25 with the distance glasses.  As usual, I have been going with .50 diopter under-correction for distance, and 1.75 diopter under for reading. 

My current status is LEFT:  -2.25 sph, +1.50 cyl;  RIGHT:  -1.25 sph, +.50 cyl  (for 20/20)
(this is approx. 2.50 spherical and 1.25 cylinder improvement in 8 months)

Therapy start was Jan 2014,   LEFT:  -4.75 sph, +2.75 cyl;  RIGHT:   -3.50 sph, +1.75 cyl.

I was not doing the print pushing as much in July, resulting in some slow down in the rate of progress.  I had been improving approx. 1/3 diopter per month.  I am confident that I will get to 20/40 in one eye at least by year end.  Again I want to say thank you to Todd for this blog and forum and to Todd and Otis for their pioneering work in helping the public to see the truth regarding Myopia. I will continue this thread so that others can see another example that treating Myopia and Astigmatism is possible if you put in the effort. 

There have been some good recent threads by jimboston (a comprehensive review) and by Nickgrouwen.  Based on my personal experience, aggressive efforts for blur clearing will pay off in improvement.  In the beginning I did do some PVS eye work, but have not been continuing, with no loss of progress. 

The issue of astigmatism is a challenge, and I think I have played this fairly well.  I have continued to reduce the cylinder component by .25 or .50 at a time.  This still allows the eyes to achieve good focus when print pushing.  I believe the eyes/brain need the reward of a mostly clear image to stimulate the auto focusing when one pushes the print into blur.  Without this, one would go from more blur to less blur.  My new glasses have no cylinder on the right, with only +1.00 cylinder on the left.

Current glasses:   Left:   -2.0 sph,+1.0 cyl,   Right:   -.75 sph, 0 cyl  (distance)
                             Left:   -0.75 sph,+1.0 cyl,   Right:   +.50 sph, 0 cyl  (reading)

Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2014, 06:50:22 AM »
Since you brought up the topic of astigmatism, this gives me the opportunity to share what has been useful to me in self evaluation.  The spoke diagram that I like to use is at a link below.attached to this post.  At this link I use the black line on white version.  You can download a PDF version.  I tried to attach the PDF, but the file size was not allowed. The lines are at 10 degree spacing.

http://vision-training.com/en/Download/Astigmatism/index.html
 
The first use in using this picture is to get the cylinder axis for each eye.  With no glasses and using one eye at a time, I note which line(s) are clearest and darkest.  The angle of this line relative to the 9:00 position, is the cylinder axis angle (with the prescription having + notation on the cylinder value (i.e.  -2.00 sph, +1.00 cyl, 80 deg,  my left eye) ).  The 80 deg is clockwise from the 9:00 position.

The second use is a qualitative function using my reading glasses with the spoke picture at the D1 plane (edge of focus).  90 deg from the darkest line is the blurriest or grayer lines.  If the 90 deg off lines are dark gray whose edges are still distinct, this is .25-.50 cylinder level.  If the off lines are lighter gray and more blurry, this is more like .75/1.00 cylinder.  If off lines have ghost doubles, then this could be 1.00/1.50 cylinder. 
Though my experience, as the spherical improves, the cylinder improves as observed using the above feedback.  I also have .25 and .75 cylinder trial lenses, which  if rotated 90 deg, change from + to – diopter.

Progress Update:
My most recent prescription update glasses (1 week ago) have been a challenge.  With this change of an additional .50 cylinder change, I am getting a lot more ghosting or double imaging.  Up until now I have not had much of this.  The good news is after aggressive work with these new glasses, I am seeing renewed faster changes.
Due to the astigmatism, I have not done much bare eye Snellen checking, as the astigmatism blurring obscures the results.  Yesterday, I did some bare eye testing(both eyes together), and I was able to get letter recognition at the Snellen 20/40 line, after a few seconds of staring and blinks.  The letters are still blurry with some double ghosting.  The ghosting is fainter and much blurryier than the main image.  Going to the 20/30 line, I was able to see 40% of the letters.  This is not a “robust” 20/40 pass, but a promising indication.  I think in 4-6 weeks, this will be a solid 20/40 status (both eyes together, and in 1 individual eye).
 
By the way, I have been using the on-line snellen chart(see link) for my measurement.  I like this one because you can adjust it for distances other than 20 feet and it will refresh with new letters when you hit display button.  This avoids the bias of memorizing or knowing  the letters of a non-changing snellen chart.

  http://www.smbs.buffalo.edu/oph/ped/IVAC/IVAC.html
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 07:03:04 AM by warnbd »

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2014, 07:14:42 AM »
Hi Warn,
Thanks for your up-data, and checking your visual acuity using the electronic Snellen.  You are right - it prevents "cheating", in that you can not memorize the letters.  Since I check myself - I find the 20 foot chart is helpful for me, since I can tell instantly if I am reading the 20/20 iine -  or not.

For myself, (when I was at -7 diopters, and 20/200 or worse), I could only DREAM of reading the 20/40 line !!! 

So when you read that line, objectively, I think that is very important.  I am a person who will accept a compromise in my life.  If that means I only pass the 20/40 line, (and the DMV) that is great for me. I know we each have our own standards, and want 20/15 vision.  But sometimes, just passing the DMV is an important step.

It is were me, as soon as I pass the DMV line, objectively, I would stop wearing any lens, astig. or spherical.  (I would obtain some $7 glasses for my own driving - but that would be very limited.)

The more you can avoid the minus lens, and cyl. lens - the better - in my opinion.

When I started this work - I did not know how truly difficult it would be to do it - and how dependent I would become on the qualities of the person himself.

Both you and Alex_myopic has shown what is possible.  We all need encouragement, and that means having an objective, self-measured goal you can see for yourself.  You are doing very well.

Thanks!

Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2014, 08:22:10 AM »

Hi Otis,

Thanks for the encouragement.  This process is difficult at times, but I am still highly motivated.  I would love to avoid glasses, but I must be patient and stay on plan.  I have already eliminated cylinder on right, but still must "nurse" my left.  In November I will be reducing the left cylinder to .50, and then to zero in Jan. 2015.  I hope to be near 20/20 in Jan/Feb in one eye at least.

I had no idea you were at -7 diopters at one time. To get to your present state was it all done with plus lens work?

I still am amazed that this process works, and that it has been a mostly "hidden" secret.  I had never heard of anything like this in my lifetime.  Unfortunately, relatively few people will ever hear about the method, and apply it over a long period of time. 


For myself, (when I was at -7 diopters, and 20/200 or worse), I could only DREAM of reading the 20/40 line !!! 

So when you read that line, objectively, I think that is very important.  I am a person who will accept a compromise in my life.  If that means I only pass the 20/40 line, (and the DMV) that is great for me. I know we each have our own standards, and want 20/15 vision.  But sometimes, just passing the DMV is an important step.

It is were me, as soon as I pass the DMV line, objectively, I would stop wearing any lens, astig. or spherical.  (I would obtain some $7 glasses for my own driving - but that would be very limited.)

The more you can avoid the minus lens, and cyl. lens - the better - in my opinion.

When I started this work - I did not know how truly difficult it would be to do it - and how dependent I would become on the qualities of the person himself.

Both you and Alex_myopic has shown what is possible.  We all need encouragement, and that means having an objective, self-measured goal you can see for yourself.  You are doing very well.

Thanks!


Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2014, 09:23:05 AM »
Hi Warn,

One of the things I do - is to PROTEST my repeated over-prescriptions - that I received as a child.  I blame myself for my own bad-habits, for certain.  I blame the OD for NOT volunteering any information to me, about science, facts and prevention - when I was a 20/40.

That minus lens and over-prescription simply destroyed my vision - permanently, in my judgment.

I restrict myself to only people who can still read the 20/60 line, and have the wisdom to avoid the minus at that point.  If the person gets to 20/40 self checked, he should thank his "lucky stars" that he had the wisdom to avoid the minus - when he passes the DMV.

I did this work for my sister's children - so they would not repeat my stupid mistake.

I love and respect medical people.  But they are totally lost - about prevention.

I did get my vision restored by cataract surgery - and I am thankful for that.

But now, I RETAIN my distant vision, by doing this reading a typing THOUGH a +2.5 diopter lens.  If only I had been helped to do this myself - when I was at 20/40.  It would have been so easy - although difficult.

I would aim at 20/25 - as a REASONABLE goal.

Be forewarned.  It is a very slow process - and will be frustrating for that reason.

Offline Ydgrunite

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2014, 10:06:07 AM »
Otis,

I don't mean to be disrespectful.  I certainly admire the efforts that you put in to help people improve their vision.  But I am not convinced that you have really had any personal success.

You eliminated your need for minus lenses through surgery, thus locking in any axial lengthening that has already happened.

You say that you retain your distant vision by motivating yourself to use the plus lens for close work.  You are a man of a certain age.  You must be affected by presbyopia by now.  Are you motivating yourself to use the plus lens, or are you simply forced to?  My mother has to wear a plus lens for all close work and she has never read anything about vision improvement.  She does it because she has to.

But that does not take anything away from the good work that you do in advising younger people.  People who are able to see near and far with the same prescription really do have to be motivated to use a plus lens.

In the past in this forum, I have shared some results of my own journey to improve from -9.5 D and, since I do not verify with Snellen readings, you told me that I am "just kidding myself."  But I know that I have already had more success than you have had.

I find your constant emphasis on 20/60 acuity as the limit where improvement can be expected to be very discouraging for people with lower acuity.  You failed to improve, but others don't have to.

Unfortunately, I am too busy to post 1000 messages on this forum that might offset that message.


Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2014, 10:39:16 AM »
Hi Ydgrunite,


Yd> I don't mean to be disrespectful.  I certainly admire the efforts that you put in to help people improve their vision.  But I am not convinced that you have really had any personal success.

Otis> I NEVER claimed, "personal success", have I?

Otis> What I said, is that prevention (up to 20/50 to 20/60) MIGHT be possible.  I certainly think you distant vision is permanently lost - if you even START wearing a minus lens. 

Otis> This come about because of this study - if you would pay attention to it:

http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/study/

This study shows that PREVENTION would be possible, up to about 20/60, but that, the eye that wears a minus lens - continues to go down at a rate of -1/2 diopter per year.

If there is ANY "getting out of it", it will be at +1/2 diopter per year.

Thus, my wearing of a plus - is to avoid going down by -1/2 diopter per year.

I would also point out that people who have had Lasik, and go back to doing "close work", and not wearing a plus, simply become myopic - yet again.

For me, prevention (after Lasisk, with a plus) would be a great saving of money. 

Further, I know that most people at 20/40, think any prevention, is a big joke.  Well - in my opinion, ignoring that -1/2 diopter per year, and the expected additional -3 diopters in six years, will be the person's tragedy.

No, success does NOT depend on *me*.  It depends on the intelligence and motivation of the person himself, to not repeat the mistake that was committed on me.

OD are a total, "lost cause".  Because they are so brain-washed, they do not look at ANY SCIENCE OR FACTS, that show that prevention (at 20/40) is both reasonable and possible.  Here are their remarks, and mine - for your interest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQBW9VYvw5w

They are totally lost, and it is a waste of time to even attempt to discuss prevention which I acknowlege must be done - by yourself.

Only prevention is possible, and there can be no medical help for you.





Otis,

I don't mean to be disrespectful.  I certainly admire the efforts that you put in to help people improve their vision.  But I am not convinced that you have really had any personal success.

You eliminated your need for minus lenses through surgery, thus locking in any axial lengthening that has already happened.

You say that you retain your distant vision by motivating yourself to use the plus lens for close work.  You are a man of a certain age.  You must be affected by presbyopia by now.  Are you motivating yourself to use the plus lens, or are you simply forced to?  My mother has to wear a plus lens for all close work and she has never read anything about vision improvement.  She does it because she has to.

But that does not take anything away from the good work that you do in advising younger people.  People who are able to see near and far with the same prescription really do have to be motivated to use a plus lens.

In the past in this forum, I have shared some results of my own journey to improve from -9.5 D and, since I do not verify with Snellen readings, you told me that I am "just kidding myself."  But I know that I have already had more success than you have had.

I find your constant emphasis on 20/60 acuity as the limit where improvement can be expected to be very discouraging for people with lower acuity.  You failed to improve, but others don't have to.

Unfortunately, I am too busy to post 1000 messages on this forum that might offset that message.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 11:45:11 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline Ydgrunite

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2014, 12:01:48 PM »
Otis> I NEVER claimed, "personal success", have I?

No, but it would give you more credibility. 


Otis> What I said, is that prevention (up to 20/50 to 20/60) MIGHT be possible.  I certainly think you distant vision is permanently lost - if you even START wearing a minus lens. 

Otis> This come about because of this study - if you would pay attention to it:

http://myopiafree.wordpress.com/study/

This study shows that PREVENTION would be possible, up to about 20/60, but that, the eye that wears a minus lens - continues to go down at a rate of -1/2 diopter per year.

If there is ANY "getting out of it", it will be at +1/2 diopter per year.

So distance vision is permanently lost if you START wearing the minus, but you will reluctantly make a claim about the rate (+1/2 D/year) that someone can "get out of it."  You really know how to hedge your bets.  Is it impossible or not?

And why do you claim that +1/2 D per year is the limit?  Just because a study shows that the average person goes down at a rate of -1/2 D per year in school.  You may be an engineer, but maybe you should hit the books again to refresh your memory on the scientific method.

Dr. Alex has a theory for how myopia progresses and how it is reversed.  Near Induced Transient Myopia followed by Lens Induced Myopia.  If a young person in schoool visits the OD once every year or two, then myopia may progress at the rate that you claim.  But if I am reducing my prescription every five or six weeks, why would I expect the rate of recovery from myopia to be the same as the rate that I got into it?

How can you make a claim like that?  It is not based on personal experience since you failed to reduce your high myopia through methods discussed in this forum and by Dr. Alex.  You do not cite a study for the +1/2 D rate.

There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up.


For me, prevention (after Lasisk, with a plus) would be a great saving of money. 

Wouldn't it be better to avoid the Lasik by reducing myopia from whatever state it is currently at?