Author Topic: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey  (Read 26633 times)

Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2014, 09:57:04 AM »
I am pleased you like the Electronic-Snellen.  I think it is better for most people - just to be consistent with good brightness.  I prefer the 20 foot Snellen, because I do not want to walk back and forth to press "display" - unless you can get someone to do that for you.

Otis,

I use  a wireless mouse, which I can hit left button to refresh the Snellen display, without having to walk back and forth to the computer.  I first position the mouse arrow on the display button and then walk away with the mouse. 

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2014, 11:33:06 AM »
Hi Warn,

Excellent suggestion.  I do the same thing - and it works up to 10 feet (with chart set for 10 feet).  But if I "jiggle" the mouse, I lose the pointer from "Display".

This is probably the best idea for your own visual-acuity testing.  You can select "one letter", and then just press the "display".  This is one test that can not be "cheated" - since the letters are random.

I understand that you are at 20/40 - which is a big step forward.  It means that you can avoid wearing the minus - in a reasonable way.

Are use using about a +1.5 diopter for most of your close work.  What do you think of that concept?



I am pleased you like the Electronic-Snellen.  I think it is better for most people - just to be consistent with good brightness.  I prefer the 20 foot Snellen, because I do not want to walk back and forth to press "display" - unless you can get someone to do that for you.

Otis,

I use  a wireless mouse, which I can hit left button to refresh the Snellen display, without having to walk back and forth to the computer.  I first position the mouse arrow on the display button and then walk away with the mouse.

Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2014, 01:33:48 PM »
Hi Otis,

Regarding using the mouse, with a wireless mouse (like Logitech M325), you should not have to worry about jiggling the mousing and moving the pointer, as long as there is not a surface near the bottom of the mouse while holding it in your hand.

As stated in above post, I am currently using 0 sph/0cyl LEFT, and +.50 sph/0 cyl RIGHT for close work, which works for D2 of 26" for laptop.  Once that moves out to around 30", then I will go to next reading glasses of +.50 L, +1.0 R.

My 20/40 status is both eyes together, despite some ghosting.  I did have an interesting experience for the first time driving without glasses in sunlight.  I could read signs, but at times the sign text would have a sideways direction double image, which would then fuse together (not to be confused with monocular double image).  This is really the first time in 40 years that I am looking at distant signs while in a moving car without glasses.  I think my eyes/brain have to learn to track and fuse an image again.  I believe that glasses have a prismatic effect that my eyes have compensated for in converging onto a distant moving target.

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2014, 10:06:44 AM »
Hi Warnbd,

DRIVING WITH 20/40, WITH NO GLASSES, IN DAY LIGHT.  I agree with this, but of course you will need a "safety" -1.25 for driving at night.

PLUS LENS WEAR.  Caimanjosh, is using a strong plus for near (but he now has 20/15 vision).  A stronger plus -- for long-term "near" wear is always a good idea.

CHANGE OF STATUS.  Yes, it is slow.  But you  have the advantage that you can almost stop wearing a minus lens - and concentrate on the habit of putting a plus on for all close work.   That truly gets at the reason our eyes develop "negative status".

ASTIGMATISM;  My personal opinion, is that prescription is always excessive.  If less-than, -1.25 diopter, just convert to "Spherical Equivalent", and order glasses from Zenioptical for $7.

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/renes-curious-astigmatism-diagnosis-importance-understanding-astigmatism-correction/

Here is the reason.  Astigmatic measurements are so in-accurate, you might as well, "not bother".  I know I can get 20/20 from a minus (spherical) lens, I am not going to "worry" about astigmatism.  After all, we SEE with BOTH EYES OPEN.  The image is "over-laid" in our brains, and any slight imperfection, is taken out by that process.

I wish you all success - and that you can keep up this "preventive" process for the next six to nine months.  It truly takes that type of long-term resolve to get the results you seek.

You will get a lot of "advice" here, but the only person who matters, and will judge success (on your own Snellen) is  yourself.

In fact, the only person who "cares", is yourself.


Hi Otis,

Regarding using the mouse, with a wireless mouse (like Logitech M325), you should not have to worry about jiggling the mousing and moving the pointer, as long as there is not a surface near the bottom of the mouse while holding it in your hand.

As stated in above post, I am currently using 0 sph/0cyl LEFT, and +.50 sph/0 cyl RIGHT for close work, which works for D2 of 26" for laptop.  Once that moves out to around 30", then I will go to next reading glasses of +.50 L, +1.0 R.

My 20/40 status is both eyes together, despite some ghosting.  I did have an interesting experience for the first time driving without glasses in sunlight.  I could read signs, but at times the sign text would have a sideways direction double image, which would then fuse together (not to be confused with monocular double image).  This is really the first time in 40 years that I am looking at distant signs while in a moving car without glasses.  I think my eyes/brain have to learn to track and fuse an image again.  I believe that glasses have a prismatic effect that my eyes have compensated for in converging onto a distant moving target.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 10:08:19 AM by OtisBrown »

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2014, 02:27:32 PM »
After all, we SEE with BOTH EYES OPEN.  The image is "over-laid" in our brains, and any slight imperfection, is taken out by that process.

That's true for diplopia as well I believe to some degree.

Offline formula16

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2014, 07:38:38 PM »
Hi
Firstly, congratulations on your progress! As someone who would like to do somethign similar, you give me inspiration. I have a few questions.
What is your training routine? Do you read computer text? How long do you do it per day?
Thanks!

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2014, 07:19:38 AM »
Hi Formula,

A number of people are working on successful prevention.  I would read about Todd's experience.

http://forum.gettingstronger.org/index.php/topic,1069.0.html

A good start - is to get your own Snellen here:

http://www.i-see.org/block_letter_eye_chart.pdf

Also - if you could post your current prescription - that would help.

Warnbd was very persistence, as you can see from this thread. He was very lucky to get to 20/40 in my opinion.  It can be done.



Hi
Firstly, congratulations on your progress! As someone who would like to do somethign similar, you give me inspiration. I have a few questions.
What is your training routine? Do you read computer text? How long do you do it per day?
Thanks!

Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2014, 10:53:09 AM »
Formula16,

Most of the answers to your questions can be found in this thread in my posts.  Go through them in chronological order.  I primarily use a laptop as my text source to "push" print.  You must be committed for the long haul, using close work and distance as opportunities to challenge your eyes focusing.  The progress will be in direct proportion to the time you put in.  Also, it is key to take breaks, rest eyes, and try to get good sleep for recovery.  Also keep track of your progress, and get a good handle on self-measurement and an understanding of diopters and how to specify and buy glasses.  My primary way of determining where I am at is measuring the distance to my D2 location of my laptop screen.  I start out at approx. 20"/22" with new glasses, and eventually push this out the 30".  Then decreasing the prescriptions by approx. .50 diopters, start again. 

As far as where I am at right now, I am definitely 20/40 (bare eyes), with some days being able to read the 20/30 line.  I am getting 20/20(close to 20/15) with distance glasses (Left -2.0 D, +1.0 D cyl,   Right -.75, 0 cyl D )  Getting close to ordering 5th set of glasses. Ghosting still a challenge, but getting a little better (or less noticeable). 

If you look at Todd Becker's experience, he eliminated -2.0 diopters in about a year.  This shows this kind of progress is not a fluke, but one has to work at it.

warnbd

Offline formula16

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2014, 05:02:45 AM »
Thanks for that. I especially wanted to know what your routine was, like how long you push printed each day, rest periods etc. Sorry if you already wrote that somewhere but I can't seem to find it!

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2014, 09:39:36 AM »
Quote
... the irregular astigmatism, when principal meridians are not perpendicular and refraction in meridian is not constant, can not be corrected by eye exercises. The regular with-the-rule astigmatism can be partly corrected by upward and downward eye movements. The regular against-the-rule astigmatism can be partly corrected by rightward and leftward eye movements. Smooth pursuit eye movements are more useful than the saccadic ones. The idea of this eye exercises is to decrease the corneal overrefraction in the steepest meridian by doing the cornea more flat in the steepest meridian to transform the toric cornea into the spheric one.

http://www.forbestvision.com/controlling-the-visual-axes/

http://www.forbestvision.com/advanced-external-ocular-muscle-warm-up/

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2014, 12:33:37 PM »
Hi Alex,

There are many people who are terrified, when they are told they are, "astigmatic".  The reality is that this cylinder measurement is "all over the map".  It changes EVERY TIME YOU GO FOR AN "EXAM", as stated here.

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/renes-curious-astigmatism-diagnosis-importance-understanding-astigmatism-correction/

For astigmatism of less-than -1.5 diopters,  I always suggest that you convert to spherical-equivalent, and do it that way.  After all, we look at things with BOTH EYES, and our brains "take out" any astigmatic component.

As your Snellen begins to clear to 20/40 (as Warnbd) is demonstrating to  himself, that more "relaxed" eye, begins to loses its astigmatism.  I do not know if this is because the plus "relaxes" the eye, or what the reason is, but only Warnbd will see the results.

It is also true, that Todd Becker demonstrated the same thing to himself.

This is why I check, my refractive status - myself - with spherical lenses. 


Quote
... the irregular astigmatism, when principal meridians are not perpendicular and refraction in meridian is not constant, can not be corrected by eye exercises. The regular with-the-rule astigmatism can be partly corrected by upward and downward eye movements. The regular against-the-rule astigmatism can be partly corrected by rightward and leftward eye movements. Smooth pursuit eye movements are more useful than the saccadic ones. The idea of this eye exercises is to decrease the corneal overrefraction in the steepest meridian by doing the cornea more flat in the steepest meridian to transform the toric cornea into the spheric one.

http://www.forbestvision.com/controlling-the-visual-axes/

http://www.forbestvision.com/advanced-external-ocular-muscle-warm-up/
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 05:27:12 PM by OtisBrown »

Offline Myoctim

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2014, 01:02:12 PM »
Hi Alex,

There are many people who are terrified, when they are told they are, "astigmatic".  The reality is that this cylinder measurement is "all over the map".  It changes EVERY TIME YOU GO FOR AN "EXAM", as stated here.

http://frauenfeldclinic.com/renes-curious-astigmatism-diagnosis-importance-understanding-astigmatism-correction/


In reality Alex' comment is pretty confusing.

So let us convert that plus cyl. prescription to an equivalent minus cyl. prescription by adding the cyl. value to the sphere and flipping the cyl. sign and shifting the axis by 90°

Eye examination, optic shop A:
RE: -5,50 +0,50 85°   
LE: -6,00 +0,5 90°
                         
-5.5D + 0.5D cyl ->  -5.0D  -0.5D cyl. axis 85° + 90° = 175°
-6.0D + 0.5D cyl ->  -5.5D  -0.5D cyl. axis 90°+ 90° = 180° (0°)

Eye examination, optic shop B:
RE: -5.00 -0,50 160°
LE: -6,00 – 0,50 11°

except some axis degrees tolerance pretty much the same, isn't it?

So why do those prescription cancel out each other??



Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2014, 03:12:52 PM »
@Myoctim

Ι have heard in order to simplify a prescription to have a function  with myopia and astigmatism and end up with diopters only.

But with the above post analysis (is it a simplistic?) mathematically you cannot add diopters with cylinders even if you change the axis in the "equivalent result".

Another point is that the axis of astigmatism is the axis where the double images make one line in the astigmatic wheel not matter how blurry you see all the lines (->myopia "added"). So I don't believe A and B can be almost the same now matter how much diopters and cylinders since they give other axes of astigmatism which differ a lot (before you make your analysis).
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 03:14:26 PM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline Myoctim

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2014, 10:46:44 AM »
@Myoctim

But with the above post analysis (is it a simplistic?) mathematically you cannot add diopters with cylinders even if you change the axis in the "equivalent result".

Another point is that the axis of astigmatism is the axis where the double images make one line in the astigmatic wheel not matter how blurry you see all the lines (->myopia "added"). So I don't believe A and B can be almost the same now matter how much diopters and cylinders since they give other axes of astigmatism which differ a lot (before you make your analysis).


Hi Alex_Myopic,

there are two ways to express an astigmatism prescription either the optimistic way by the sphere being the better meridian's value or
the pessimistic one where the sphere is the worse value (like prefered by forum member warnbd)

Quote
The difference between a + or - cylinder is all in how the prescription was written.
Ophthalmologists write thier Rx's in the + cyl form, while optometrists and the rest of the industry use the - cyl form.

So, an Rx from an Opthalmologist always has to be converted to the - form to be fabricated.. It is just 2 different ways of getting to
the same result.

For instance a lens that is - 1.00 - 0.50 X 90...is the same as - 1.50 + 0.50 X 180

source  https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081022063851AAJE9tU

Just try it out

http://www.optical4less.com/cylconverter/

Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2014, 02:59:28 PM »
Hi Myoctim,
then mathematically, knowing for sure that we can add minus and plus lenses for myopia (because both are in diopters), in case A we have:
-5.5D + 0,50cyl 85°  =  -5.0D  -0.5 cyl. axis 175°<=>
<=>-5.5D + 0.5 cyl axis 85 +5D =  -5.0D  -0.5 cyl. axis 175° +5D
<=> -0.5D = -0.5 cyl. axis 175°  + (-0.5cyl) axis 85 
which means a spherical prescription can be an equal of the sum of two cylinder prescriptions when they are vertical to each other and all the same degree and sign. 
I don;t know for sure if this is truth.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 03:55:15 PM by Alex_Myopic »