Author Topic: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey  (Read 25511 times)

Offline Myoctim

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2014, 04:25:33 PM »
Hi Myoctim,
then mathematically, knowing for sure that we can add minus and plus lenses for myopia (because both are in diopters), in case A we have:
-5.5D + 0,50cyl 85°  =  -5.0D  -0.5 cyl. axis 175°<=>
<=>-5.5D + 0.5 cyl axis 85 +5D =  -5.0D  -0.5 cyl. axis 175° +5D
<=> -0.5D = -0.5 cyl. axis 175°  + (-0.5cyl) axis 85 
which means a spherical prescription can be an equal of the sum of two cylinder prescriptions when they are vertical to each other and all the same degree and sign. 
I don;t know for sure if this is truth.

Hi Alex_Myopic,

that sum only correspondents to a myope's worst meridian's refractive state at a -cyl. Rx respectively his best at a +cyl. Rx.

For getting a better idea about the astigmatic effect let's assume a -1D 0D cyl. and a -1D  -1Dx90 cyl. myope both approaching an
astigmatism sun/wheel.

If the 0D cyl. guy reaches the 1m distance to the chart he now can see all the radials pretty bold and sharp because for him they
all are at the same focal plane.

Unfortunately that's not the case if there also is an astigmatic refractive error.
At the same 1m distance a 90°cyl. person only gets the horizontal line bold (or a 180°astig.guy the vertical radial) while all others
appear increasingly grayish and blured (and probably as it's for me the vertical radials even are double).

Approaching a bit further now also the next radial gets bold but when focusing on it the previous now looses a bit of its former
boldness because for an astigmatic person each radial is at a separate focal plane.

So there is no way to get all radials bold at the same time.
The only trick without using a cyl. lens is the spherical equivalent, focusing at the median focal plane between the two principal
astigmatic meridians -1D and -2D (-1D + -1D cyl) where the radials are not bold but all at the same gray tone.

BTW, that point also is called the point of least confusion because here now the astigmatic distortion is reduced to a small blur
circle and at low astigmatism the difference to a perfect focal point by a cyl.lens is negligible.



Offline Alex_Myopic

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2014, 12:25:10 PM »
Thanks for the answer Myoctim.
So the axis of astigmatism is +90 the axis of most bold line in the wheel.

It looks like in geometry two vertical cylinders might make a sphere (all the same radius) so we might have +90 degrees change in the astigmatism part when taking the equivalent when in myopia and astigmatism case.

***********************

I learned some months ago that eyes have an "auto-servomechanism" in order to stay "parallel to the horizon" or better say send images
to the brain that are always tuned with the horizon. In other words, tilt your head rightwards or leftwards in front of a mirror and you will see (especially from the veins of the eyeball) that the oblique muscles move the eyeball in relation to the head to keep it "parallel to the horizon". So when we tilt our heads our glasses don't move in relation to the head so the axis of astigmatism has more and more error in relation to the true axis.

If someone suspects the solution, I would never wear contact lenses because of frequent inflammations and infections (and not breathing well the tissue).


« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 02:39:03 PM by Alex_Myopic »

Offline Myoctim

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2014, 04:48:52 PM »

It looks like in geometry two vertical cylinders might make a sphere (all the same radius)

Two rectangular cyl. lenses would complement each other to a spherical lens.
We can see it when looking at the formula describing the refractive power of a cyl. lens  D = D cyl. (sin axis)²

So they add up to D total = Dcyl1 (sin x)² + Dcyl2 ((sin x + 90°))²


Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2015, 11:33:28 AM »
My Status after 1 year of Optical rehabilitation:

It has been 1 year since I started the process promoted by this forum.  My current 20/20 prescription is -1.25 sph (left), -.75 sph (right).  With snellen, I can occasionally read 100% of 20/30 line (bare eyes), but I still say that I am at a 20/40 state.  When the sun is direct during daylight, I will drive without glasses.  I am now using my 5th set of Zennioptical glasses, with an undercorrected prescription of -1.25 sph, +.75 cyl L,  -.50 sph (0 cyl) R for distance viewing.  Any future glasses will have no cylinder component. Ghosting still there, but slowly improving.   

My progress has slowed over the last 2 months due less focus work on average, and inadequate sleep due to life's stresses recently.  I still am committed to my goals, as I am encouraged to see where I started, 
-4.75 sph,, +2.75 cyl L,  -3.50 sph, +1.75 cyl R.   

I think the keys for this to work are:

Putting in the time of focus pushing(pulling)
Taking breaks from the focus work
Good sleep for recovery
Good nutrition to support eye rebuilding
Some eye stretching (good for astigmatism)
Document your progress (D2 length, Snellen)

I would also recommend looking at the recent posts of CapitalPrince, as the points made are valid.  Intentful focusing, moving the focal plane in and out.  I also have found that rotating the head side to side a few degrees helps in stimulating the auto focusing.  Sometimes when you are staring at some blur, the eye muscles seem to paralyze.  By moving one's head, the muscles are forced to be flexing.  This also changes the distance from text plane to each individual eye a bit, without having to move the text closer and further away.

Good luck to all 

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #64 on: January 07, 2015, 03:15:23 PM »
hey warnbd

i like how you mentioned that the eye muscles seemed to paralyze. I do experience that as well. Remember how Bates recommended the "long swing" and "the sway"? I guess one can apply those techniques to the plus (at near by moving the head slightly) like you said.

summary of techniques when working at the blur with the plus
-moving text in and out of blur
-moving head slowly from side to side (a few degrees)
-open eyes wide, relax, blink (CRB)
-trace the words
-look at he smallest detail in each letter, move eyes rapidly

Offline OtisBrown

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2015, 07:18:00 PM »
Hi Warnbd,

WOW - that is a incredible success - for one year of effort.  Here is my supportive commentary:

Warn> My Status after 1 year of Optical rehabilitation:

Warn> It has been 1 year since I started the process promoted by this forum.  My current 20/20 prescription is -1.25 sph (left), -.75 sph (right).  With snellen, I can occasionally read 100% of 20/30 line (bare eyes), but I still say that I am at a 20/40 state.

Otis> It is true that "in side" you will be reading 20/30.  Outside, due to "depth of field" you will  have 20/20.  Also, 20/30 passes the DMV test. But, like me, we are cautious.

Otis>  I also like direct, objective reading of my own consistent bright Snellen, for consistency. That is the only real way to be confident of your own results.  Also, the DMV requires both eyes to be open, so you gain the "better eye" reading.  That "last diopter" is the hardest, and longest.  But you have the correct idea, and I think you will achieve what Todd obtained, 20/20 with both eyes open.  Thanks for posting - it encourages all of us on Todd's site.


My Status after 1 year of Optical rehabilitation:

It has been 1 year since I started the process promoted by this forum.  My current 20/20 prescription is -1.25 sph (left), -.75 sph (right).  With snellen, I can occasionally read 100% of 20/30 line (bare eyes), but I still say that I am at a 20/40 state.  When the sun is direct during daylight, I will drive without glasses.  I am now using my 5th set of Zennioptical glasses, with an undercorrected prescription of -1.25 sph, +.75 cyl L,  -.50 sph (0 cyl) R for distance viewing.  Any future glasses will have no cylinder component. Ghosting still there, but slowly improving.   

My progress has slowed over the last 2 months due less focus work on average, and inadequate sleep due to life's stresses recently.  I still am committed to my goals, as I am encouraged to see where I started, 
-4.75 sph,, +2.75 cyl L,  -3.50 sph, +1.75 cyl R.   

I think the keys for this to work are:

Putting in the time of focus pushing(pulling)
Taking breaks from the focus work
Good sleep for recovery
Good nutrition to support eye rebuilding
Some eye stretching (good for astigmatism)
Document your progress (D2 length, Snellen)

I would also recommend looking at the recent posts of CapitalPrince, as the points made are valid.  Intentful focusing, moving the focal plane in and out.  I also have found that rotating the head side to side a few degrees helps in stimulating the auto focusing.  Sometimes when you are staring at some blur, the eye muscles seem to paralyze.  By moving one's head, the muscles are forced to be flexing.  This also changes the distance from text plane to each individual eye a bit, without having to move the text closer and further away.

Good luck to all

Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2015, 07:50:01 AM »
Jim

I am just starting with a 5th set of glasses (distance and reading).  Therefore on average, I used the previous 4 sets for approx. 3 months each.  Each time I picked prescriptions that would place my D2 at a desired distance.  With a new prescription, I try for approx. 20-22" for D2 (for near work, focus pushing).  Then as time goes on, eventually the D2 gets out to 29-32".  When this happens I know its time to order new glasses, this is approx. .50 diopter change.  This distance works for my laptop, which is my primary near work text medium.  If one was using paper material, like a book, this would be closer and need a more plus direction prescription. 

It's not so much that it is a reduced prescription is the trick, but that it is as much as possible to be challenging your focusing in the D1-D2 area.  If one is more comfortable at 40" distance from reading material, then prescription must reflect that.  It's putting as much time as you can in D1-D2 zone, day after day, that creates the stress signal for whatever is actually changing, axial length, ciliary, etc.  (of course with breaks, overdoing it is counterproductive).

For distance glasses, I try for a prescription that is approx. .50 D under-corrected from what I need to get 20/20 line on my on-line Snellen.  More than this is too much for driving etc.  With this .50 D under, I can do some focus-pulling (what I call pulling, as I can't "push" the viewed object away). A TV that is 12-13 ft away works good for this.  Or if I am driving, I look at signs, license plates, etc., trying to bring them into focus.  Of course when driving, anything will eventually come into focus as you approach it at speed. 

Another challenge has been the astigmatism component.  I kept inching it down, until I got ahead of the rate of  cylinder improvement.  The cylinder of course affects the spherical, which makes it tricky to get the right prescription for the desired D2 distance. 

I think the rate of progress is directly related to the percentage of time spent when you challenge your focusing (near or distance).  Spending 10 minutes here, and later another 10 minutes there, is not enough to create the hormesis bias, or at best very slow progress.  Becoming more myopic over time is similar in that with enough time everyday where your lens is focused always  near its extreme, the stress is promoting eye changes in an undesired direction. 

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2015, 07:23:08 AM »
look back when you became myopic. You would use your eyes at the nearpoint for long periods of time, several hours a day. Sometimes you would notice your vision very blurry after you did several hours of close work. After some rest and a night's sleep. the vision would go back to normal again.

After you did this for several weeks/months/years, you notice vision to be permanently blurry and no amount of rest could reset your vision.
It's the same thing trying to improve your vision.



Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #68 on: January 12, 2015, 09:01:05 AM »
JimBoston,

My experience is that my vision is the best in the morning, as the eyes have gotten rest in the night.  Then throughout the day, as vision is used, as active focusing is done, my vision degrades by approx. .25 D due to strain on ciliary and ocular muscles. I never get increasing better vision as day goes on like you are describing.  I also do not see any kind of "locked-in" improvement in a day as you describe.  A month or more can go by without noticeable improvement.  If AL is shortening, I would think it is a slow longer term process. When I hear someone saying they can see improvement in a day, I get skeptical of what they are doing. 

I have experienced periods of many consecutive days where I have overdone the active focusing, straining the ciliary. This either stagnates any progress, and even can appear to cause lost ground (.25 D).  Then, realizing this, I back off and rest eyes more. With 2 or 3 days of recovery, I can then see a noticeable improvement, not because the AL suddenly jumped, but that the rest/recovery allowed the ciliary to flatten the lens fully.  This may give one the feeling of a sudden jump, but it is a recovery event.  My feeling is that AL shortening is a long term, slow process.  Supposing one can improve 2 diopter in a year, that is .0054 diopter change per day.  I can not see how anyone can perceive a .0054 D change.

 I am not sure about your question about vision stability.  As I have said, my acuity degrades as the day goes on typically, but I do not characterize that as a vision instability. 

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2015, 09:36:37 AM »
hi warnbd,

do you notice any differences print pushing with computer vs book? for me the book does not work so well.

Also, for the longest time, my morning visual acuity was horrendous. Like when i woke up i had serious amounts of blur, my vision would be 20/40 or less, and had the "weird blinking problem". After i wash my face, do some palming, do some "exercises" my vision would be better throughout the day and stay that way.
j
Since Dec 20-something that problem was gone. My morning visual acuity is excellent, maybe perceptually less. Throughout the day it doesn't change noticeable. My vision is 20/20 bright snellen (not sunlight). 20/25-20/30, in dim lighting.

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2015, 12:33:44 AM »
hey jimboston,

i think your morning visual acuity will improve after few months print pushing with the plus. I experienced the terrible morning acuity problem, but that went away.

 We all get too caught up in the details (including myself), but just do what Otis suggests. take a plus (or bifocal/progressive), find a good book, and push print. You need to do this for hours a day (todd in his lecture said 2-4 hours a day). But do remember it is not the "plus" that causes the improvement, its the "active focus".

Again, if you think about it, its *very difficult* to make the eyes nearsighted. It takes sustained nearpoint stress hours a day and months/years. Very few people 100 years ago are myopic Its difficult to say when improvements "lock in". that would be like watching the grass grow and asking when does it growth "lock in".

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2015, 12:34:58 AM »
hey jimboston,

i think your morning visual acuity will improve after few months print pushing with the plus. I experienced the terrible morning acuity problem, but that went away.

 We all get too caught up in the details (including myself), but just do what Otis suggests. take a plus (or bifocal/progressive), find a good book, and push print. You need to do this for hours a day (todd in his lecture said 2-4 hours a day). But do remember it is not the "plus" that causes the improvement, its the "active focus".

Again, if you think about it, its *very difficult* to make the eyes nearsighted. It takes sustained nearpoint stress hours a day and months/years. Very few people 100 years ago are myopic Its difficult to say when improvements "lock in". that would be like watching the grass grow and asking when the growth "locks in".

Offline CapitalPrince

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2015, 12:36:18 AM »

hey jimboston,

i think your morning visual acuity will improve after few months print pushing with the plus. I experienced the terrible morning acuity problem, but that went away.

 We all get too caught up in the details (including myself), but just do what Otis suggests. take a plus (or bifocal/progressive), find a good book, and push print. You need to do this for hours a day (todd in his lecture said 2-4 hours a day). But do remember it is not the "plus" that causes the improvement, its the "active focus".

Again, if you think about it, its *very difficult* to make the eyes nearsighted. It takes sustained nearpoint stress hours a day and months/years. Very few people 100 years ago are myopic Its difficult to say when improvements "lock in". that would be like watching the grass grow and asking when the growth "locks in".


Offline warnbd

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2015, 09:04:39 AM »

hey jimboston,

i think your morning visual acuity will improve after few months print pushing with the plus. I experienced the terrible morning acuity problem, but that went away.

 We all get too caught up in the details (including myself), but just do what Otis suggests. take a plus (or bifocal/progressive), find a good book, and push print. You need to do this for hours a day (todd in his lecture said 2-4 hours a day). But do remember it is not the "plus" that causes the improvement, its the "active focus".

Again, if you think about it, its *very difficult* to make the eyes nearsighted. It takes sustained nearpoint stress hours a day and months/years. Very few people 100 years ago are myopic Its difficult to say when improvements "lock in". that would be like watching the grass grow and asking when the growth "locks in".

I agree that I could be picky, but the aftersleep degradation is troubling, because you have to work up from it again and again. Since it is the worst measurement of the day, it is a reliable baseline for progress. It could be sleep position or lacrimation that is the issue, but I find it very frustrating that the first 30-60 minutes of the day have been pretty much constant without any improvement, regardless of gains during the day. Hopefully, the morning blur will disappear as you state, but so far it has always returned me back to baseline for the past 4-5 months with many hours of edge-of-blur work/day.

Hi JimBoston,

I read the recent posts in this thread more carefully and I wanted to clarify my points.  I would agreed that one's vision changes during the day and are perceptible.  For you, it sounds like mid-morning is where you have the best acuity.  I think that should be when you evaluate your state.  My point is that in a 24 hour period, the progress (of 2 diopter per year) would not be perceptible from one mid-morning to another mid-morning.  Also my primary way of self-measurement is tracking my D1/D2 distance, not the Snellen.  As my D2 distance slowly becomes longer, there is a point where I know it is time for new lenses.

Progress Update:

As the originator of this thread, it is time for another progress update from me.  With bare eyes I am consistently getting 100% of reading the 20/30 line (with approx. 75% of the 20/25 line) using the on-line chart on my laptop.  My ghost imaging is slowly getting better, a longer term project I think.  I also can now read the 20/20 line with my current distance glasses(left -1.0 D sph, right -.50 D sph).  I am encountering the slow down of progress in the last diopter that people talk about.  However, a big factor for me in recent 4 months is that I have not been able to put in very much dedicated time doing edge of blur training.  All in all, still very satisfied in going from 20/400 to 20/30 in 14 months. 

Offline ZC

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Re: My Myopia/Astigmatism Journey
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2015, 06:45:23 AM »
warnbd,

Your progress is inspiring. 20/25 is quite an accomplishment. Congratulations!

Thank you for documenting your methods and and your results.