Getting Stronger: Discussion Forum

Discussion Topics => Rehabilitation => : YankyHanky November 10, 2013, 07:37:34 AM

: Excited to start :)
: YankyHanky November 10, 2013, 07:37:34 AM
Hey everyone!
I’m 17 years old. I have started to realize I had myopia when I was as young as 13 years old and it started getting hard to see the board. I didn’t tell my parents about my vision problems or get my eyes checked. I tried some versions of the Bates Method which involved palming and some other eye exercises but with no avail.
I almost lost all hope of improving my vision, due to reading everywhere that the Bates method is bunch of crap, and after my friends convinced me that if it really worked, It would be much more popular than that. I also hate the fact that most vision improvement sites claim that the reason people’s prescriptions get higher every year is due to wearing glasses when I know for sure that my vision deteriorated over the last 4-5 years without me every wearing glasses.
I recently got my eyes checked and it turns out I’m -2 diopters in both eyes. I’m still very interested in improving my vision but I don’t know where to start. If you could give me an idea about how to start I would be very grateful. I have stumbled across this but it confused me even more. Also the way he disregards everything except his methods seem very ignorant and fishy.. Thank you for taking your time to read this :D
: Re: Excited to start :)
: OtisBrown November 10, 2013, 08:43:34 AM
Hi Hanky -

Subject:  Responsible learning, your self-control and wisdom, and facing an honestly difficult problem.

The FIRST thing you must do is to down-load this Snellen chart.  Have the courage to read it (with bright light).  The chart is free.

STOP relying on an OD, or any measurement made in an office.  (I will help you with that issue.)
The OD is sincere, but has NO INTEREST in plus-prevention, and considers it totally impossible - because you will not do it.

I like to say that, "... the journey of 1,000 miles, starts but with a single step".

Your eye-chart.

The OD is prohibited from helping you, because all the ODs insist that the parents will not "stand for" correct recovery with a plus.  They are also prohibited, because plus-prevention does not cost anything.  They can't make money off it.

With a -2.0, you might still read the 20/120.  Perhaps you can read the 20/60 line.  But the bold step is to understand and eventually passing the required standard - by your objective verification.

Bates did one good thing - he ATTEMPTED to conduct a preventive study.  But he also insisted that "long-term near" has NO EFFECT on the refractive status of the eye.  In the years that followed that statement - has been proven to be false.  Bates LIMITED his statement to "early" nearsightedness, or visual acuity from 20/40 to 20/100.  He obviously opposed "excessive claims of success" - as I do.

I would read Todd's statement about his success, and think about your program that will be difficult, because it depends completely on both your intelligence and motivation.

There are many people who are intelligent like you are, but most fail when it comes to motivation - in my opinion.

If you desire a, "step by step" support - then read the Snellen and let us know which line you can read 1/2 the letters on.

Prevention is not going to be easy - but it is possible. 

: Re: Excited to start :)
: Todd Becker November 10, 2013, 02:15:59 PM

Glad you found this site.  There is hope for you indeed.  Your correction (-2 diopters) is close to where I started, and I was able to get rid of glasses within a year.  That was more than a decade ago.  Many others visiting this site and forum have reversed stronger corrections.

I agree with Otis to start by making a self-assessment of your Snellen rating.  It is important to track your progress and for that you need an objective measure -- just as weighing yourself on a scale is essential to judge how well a weight loss diet is working.

You read the post on "Rehabilitation".  Go back and read the other two articles on this blog about vision improvement:

Then read through the main eyesight improvement thread on this forum:,8.0.html

The key concept to understand is how to do print pushing by reading at the edge of blur.  Plus lenses are useful adjuncts, but not essential or even useful until your vision improves to the point that you can read your computer easily at 20 inches in full focus.

Good luck,

: Re: Excited to start :)
: YankyHanky November 10, 2013, 06:30:16 PM
Thanks a tonne Otis and Todd for the speedy replies :D
I read through the threads you've linked and they've helped me quite a bit.
Unfortunately I have to wait till tomorrow to be able to print the snellen. (virus reasons)
 Anyway, from what I have understood I should do print pushing which involves pushing print away gradually till the "edge of the blur" and since my eyesight is this poor I don't need plus lenses anytime soon.
What else do I need to do? eye exercises, palming, sunning? is any of that stuff any good?
Oh and Otis, when you mentioned bright light you mean normal house light not sunlight right?
Also there is this mystery that I can't figure out. The optometrist I went to didn't make me read the 8th line with my glasses, instead he checked to see if i could see the 6th line, which I understood later that it's the 20/30 line and not the 20/20. So i guess that means that my vision is much worse than 2 diopters. since i needed -2 prescription to be able to read the 20/30. Also why  do you think did my optometrist would want to under prescribe me?
With my naked eye i could barely see the 20/100. and even sometimes I couldn't see it if that helps .
Anyway I guess that can only wait till i print the snellen and see for my self. Thanks again, I really didn't expect to get a reply that fast .  ;)
: Re: Excited to start :)
: Todd Becker November 11, 2013, 08:28:03 AM
Anyway, from what I have understood I should do print pushing which involves pushing print away gradually till the "edge of the blur" and since my eyesight is this poor I don't need plus lenses anytime soon.


What else do I need to do? eye exercises, palming, sunning? is any of that stuff any good?

Don't waste your time with palming or sunning.  But some exercises are helpful -- such as those discussed in David DeAngelis book "The Secret of Perfect Vision".  Ocular stretching -- by looking to the periphery up, down, left and right, and alternating between near and far objects -- appear to help improve and extend your focal range.

...why  do you think did my optometrist would want to under prescribe me?

I don't know...but slight underprescription is a good way to transition to a reduced prescription for your distance vision for necessary distance activities such as driving or watching movies.  By combining underprescription for distance with print pushing or plus lenses for close work, you have the best combination.

Good luck!
: Re: Excited to start :)
: YankyHanky November 11, 2013, 12:38:09 PM
I got the snellen one the wall!
However I have a few things I need to ask/fix.
1)I can't light it up like yours in Otis's video. The room itself is well-lit but it's not a bulb shining right on the snellen like yours. why is that needed? if I may ask.
2)your snellen is near ground-level. Is it meant to be that way ? I hung my snellen around my eye level is that correct? I do the check while standing.

Anyway as for the snellen check
Without Glasses
2 Eyes: I could read the 20/100 line letters but not clear.
right eye: can only see the 20/200 line. Can see 20/100 line but just barely. the 20/20 line almost appears blank lol.
left eye: same as right eye. maybe just a tiny tiny  bit worse.

With Glasses
With -2 diopter Glasses
2 Eyes: Can read the 20/20 line no problem.
right eye: can read the 20/20 line but a little harder.
left eye:even harder to read the 20/20 lion but I can still read it.

I don't have a 6-metre strin so I used a 1.5 meter string to measure the distance but I think I did it fairly accurately.

On a side note: How long do I need to print push? is excessive print pushing bad, because I've been getting headaches lately. Not from print pushing as I still haven't done it, But I always feel like my eyes are strained. I wear the glasses for 6 hours 1 day. and 4 hours for 2 days and the rest of the week I don't wear them at all, except for watching Tv occasionally. I heard it could also be the plastic lenses. I don't know.

: Re: Excited to start :)
: YankyHanky November 11, 2013, 01:35:54 PM
Thanks for your kind response :)
Yes I'm full of sadness and regret that I let my vision get so bad  :(. 3 years ago, When I would estimate my myopia was very minor, I knew all about bates attempts etc. I tried many things from then till now. Out of all of them, this is the only one that actually makes sense. Anyway I just like to think that prevention is still possible for me. It's why I like to hear from members like Todd who've managed to improve there vision from prescriptions like mine.

As for the +1 diopter , I have some problem with that. I won't be 18 until 6 months and I don't know how to convince my parents to get me a pair. Although my mother requires reading glasses It's because she's farsighted and I don't know how to make her understand why I want one.

I don't use the minus lense except when I attend my classes.
And yeah I don't need the minus lense for reading or using the computer. But I use them for reading during the classes occasionaly. I attend classes only 3 days a week and they are 12 hours long in total but I keep wearing the glasses on my way home. so that's a total of about 15 hours wearing the minus per week.
: Re: Excited to start :)
: OtisBrown November 11, 2013, 05:15:08 PM
Hi Hanky,

Your intellectual review of prevention-minded doctors would be of value.  I would recommend just reading Dr. Alex's site,

Click on the "Forum" -- and read the various levels of success.  For those who are lucky enough to read the 20/40 to 20/50 line, I suggest continued wearing of the plus, and say that science and facts supports that necessity.


Let me also include the statement by an optometrist about the plus lens:

What I always wish for, is that I be told about this possibility, before I start wearing a minus lens.

Todd was successful, from a -2 diopter - so it can be done.

: Re: Excited to start :)
: YankyHanky November 12, 2013, 04:21:43 AM
Thanks for the links, they are very insightful, especially the 2nd one.
I did another check today, soon after I woke up and I could see better than yesterday where I did the check at night. with my left eye I could read the 20/100 line easier than yesterday. and with my right eye when I focused a bit I could read the 20/70 line. When I Opened both eyes letters from the 20/60 line started to appear. It's kind of strange though because a minute earlier I could only see till the 20/70 line with both eyes before testing my eyes.  Since I don't have the plus yet I'm trying to do print pushing without. It's easier while using the computer than while studying. I'm even doing it right now while typing this, but i don't know if the distance is too much. I'm about 90 cm away from the computer.but I can see well.
: Re: Excited to start :)
: YankyHanky November 12, 2013, 03:35:59 PM
I've been a little paranoid about getting reading glasses. In all honesty I'm actually scared it will make me farsighted. As dumb as that may sound,  why not? Why won't my eyes become dependent on  the plus lenses and become hyperopic, just like an eye becomes dependent on minus lenses and becomes myopic.

I won't lie, the larger part of myself believes that recovery isn't possible after the eyesight deteriorates under 20/50-20/60, which might be your belief too. I don't understand how print pushing can help a prescription like mine. I'm sorry for coming out a bit different here, I'm just sharing some thoughts that I usually won't type out.

I'd like to think of the forum as a second family for myself and not to restrain from sharing some thoughts especially after I've tried to do some research about it. You probably know how confusing it can get while trying to look for answers regarding visual acuity on the internet. :)

I'm also not very happy with my print pushing. It's very hard to  stay at edge of the blur while studying. For instance when I'm studying mathematics, the size of the print varies so while the edge of the blur of a print may be at let's say 50 cm I can't  tell the difference between exponents that are written in a smaller print. so I need to get closer to read them then move back again. It becomes very hard to maintain the same distance while studying.

Other than that I've checked my snellen a few times again today with the same results as last time. I now try to never use the minus lenses while at home or while looking at objects up close, Although sometimes it becomes unavoidable, for instance when I'm attending a class and I'm switching between taking notes and looking at the board, taking off glasses becomes very distracting at this point.
: Re: Excited to start :)
: YankyHanky November 12, 2013, 05:54:47 PM
Otis I think you misunderstood my post  :D

I was just saying that I'm a bit paranoid about the reading glasses.
and in other part of my post, I was expressing some difficulties I have with print pushing, but I never meant to indicate that I'm giving up! I'm in for the long run! If theres is 1% hope to improve my vision I will do all what it takes. Improving my vision is my lifetime goal. It's the only thing that I dislike about my life. If not for it, my life would be perfect. so for me, quitting is not an option. And if people have managed to improve there vision from prescriptions like mine and even worse then I can do it too!

 When you talked about people who wanted a flying career, you reminded me of my childhood, and when I told everyone that I wanted to be a pilot. Soon I hit my early teens and I watched this dream slip away slowly as it became harder and harder to see the board, sad I know. I wish I would have known about this site so maybe I would have been able to prevent myopia when it was still very minor, and I could have pursued my dream as a pilot.

Anyway Thanks for your support and sorry if I caused any misunderstanding :)
: Re: Excited to start :)
: YankyHanky November 12, 2013, 07:25:01 PM
but the plus makes scientific sense to me.  If it did not, I  would not have advocated that my sister's children wear it
May you please explain to me the scientific sense behind plus lenses? It's not me being doubtful but I  think that understanding the science behind them can be beneficial in motivating me to wear them more responsibly.

As for the outdoor sports that I used to play (football and tennis), They are very hard to play now for me without glasses. 

I'll go check the pharmacy next to my house tomorrow  for reading glasses and see how that works for me. What if I find +1 and +1.5 instead of +1.25 though, what do I get?
: Re: Excited to start :)
: Arachne November 14, 2013, 02:43:30 PM

I'll go check the pharmacy next to my house tomorrow  for reading glasses and see how that works for me. What if I find +1 and +1.5 instead of +1.25 though, what do I get?

Get both pairs. Use +1 for computer work and +1.5 for reading books. By the way, regarding your fear becoming hyperopic through the use of plus glasses, please set your mind at rest. That is not likely to happen overnight! It's something that only those whose sight is already on the positive side of 0 might need to worry about. It's taken me two years of constant work with plus glasses to improve my vision from -3 to around -1. There's no way I'm going to become hyperopic (or even presbyopic, which is more likely as I'm almost 60) anytime soon. I still have perfect close-up vision, even for tiny print in dim lighting, and my distance vision is improving every day. I wear +2 glasses for computer work and +3 for books, and I wear them for several hours each day. When I reach 0 (I am confident this will happen in about a year if the current rate of progress continues), I will probably continue to wear +1 glasses for all close-up work to prevent myopia from recurring. As well as plus glasses, I find the exercises on incredibly useful.
: Re: Excited to start :)
: OtisBrown November 19, 2013, 08:34:48 PM
Hi Arachne,

Otis>  You are totally correct.  One thing I remark on, is that we tend to believe that everyone "thinks like us".  That is totally wrong.  I know I wanted to "research Bates", and finally did. With "understanding", I would like to conduct a "Bates type" study - except the person would be taught "basic optometry", and would be taught to both read his Snellen (on a permanent basis), and taught to systematically, measure his refractive state - himself.   I do not think that is too much to ask for - since I do it myself on a regular basis.  I am older that you, but I have 20/20 on my Snellen, and (required for 20/20), I have a positive status of +1.0 diopters.  That is NOT "hyperopia", or "presbyopia", it is an objective positive status. To FORCE un-reasonable words on an objective measurement is both anti-scientific, and perverts the basis of science.  I know that no one who is "medical" has any interest in me protecting my distant vision myself.

Arachne> There's no way I'm going to become hyperopic (or even presbyopic, which is more likely as I'm almost 60) anytime soon.

Otis> Your refractive STATE is indeed slightly negative. It is very valuable to check your Snellen, to verify 20/40 or better - and avoid wearing the minus lens.  It is also excellent to have a "hand held" minus, to verify your retina is capable of 20/20.  (This is not medicine, but it is valuable to be expert enough to do it.)

Otis> If you are "strong" and persist in wearing the plus (moving to stronger plus when you can), the I think you will exceed the 20/40 line, and very slowly begin to "clear" most of the 20/25 and 20/20 line.  (For me, the 20/20 line is not required).

Otis>  If you get to 20/20, then your refractive state will be 0.0 diopters, or "emmetropia", or "perfect".  I have a range of accommodation of 2.0 diopters.  If you get to 0.0 diotpers, you will  keep that range for the next 20 years.  You can quit the plus - when you get there.
: Re: Excited to start :)
: Arachne November 20, 2013, 05:11:25 AM

I agree with what you say, but I don't believe that 20/20 is necessarily the place to stop, and I don't believe that it corresponds to 0.0 diopters, at least not in my case! There is a difference between being able to read the 20/20 line (which I can do) and having it show up as instantly crystal clear and pin-sharp (which isn't happening yet!). My Snellen chart is carefully measured out to a distance of 20 feet away from me, and I can read the 20/20 line at all times, unless I'm having a really bad day. My vision is, however, nowhere near what I would consider emmetropic, but it is creeping towards that goal in very slow increments. Two years ago I could not read anything much below the top line of the Snellen, so I know that my vision has improved to a remarkable extent since then, but I still have a way to go. At present I am working on the 20/15 line and I can usually clear a few letters. When I can read the whole 15 line consistently every day without effort, I reckon I will be nearer to emmetropia.

Two years on from when I began, I am now convinced that it is perfectly possible to reduce one's myopia (with plus lenses and good visual habits) at any age, though the process might be more rapid in the case of young people. For the first year or so I was skeptical about the claims of this method, but I persevered and now the evidence is absolutely conclusive that it works. It just needs a lot of patience. In fact, I cannot overemphasise the importance of (1) PATIENCE and (2) PERSEVERENCE. If you stop regular therapeutic use of the plus to (gently) encourage your eyes to adapt, you will stop progressing. And if you try to use too strong a plus for too long, you will also stop progressing because so much stress leads to spasm and inflexibility. It takes time to find the correct balance: knowing how much to do at any time. As for the minus, the only time I ever wear it is for nighttime driving.

Anyway, my infinite thanks (in order of discovery on the Internet) go to Arkadiy (Davydov), Todd (Becker), David (de Angelis), and Alex (Frauenfeld) for having explained the principle in slightly different (but complementary) ways. We are lucky. Twenty years ago, myopia was considered incurable. Except that I always remembered my grandparents telling me about some prisoners of war who lost their specs during their time in the prisons and came home after the war to find they no longer needed glasses!
: Re: Excited to start :)
: Todd Becker November 20, 2013, 07:19:02 AM

Thanks for the excellent recap of your personal experience in reducing myopia.   Reports like yours are especially encouraging by showing that age is no impediment to success, so long as one is persistent and has the proper understanding.   

Thanks also for making me aware of Arkadiy Davydov and his remarkable website, (  The exercises he has developed are quite clever.  Not only do they help with vision improvement; they also provide insight into what is actually going on with your eyes, e.g. how to determine which eye is dominant and how to strengthen a weak eye.  One of the pleasures of writing this blog is learning from those, like yourself, who come here to share, debate and develop new ideas.